Jazzcat Saga - The Next Question

Stemar

Stemar

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 Sep 2001
Messages
25,676
Location
Home - Southampton, Boat - Gosport
Visit site
The mast's up and now it's time to put the sails on, but the genoa furling line is missing. It's a huge, genny, so I know it's going to need a good bit of string, but can anyone tell me how much and what diameter, please?

She's a Catalac 8m.
 
I got 30m of 8mm braid on braid for my 9m a couple of years ago. I take the inner core out of the part first part that you don't pull on, possibly 9 or 10m. For the sail I mainly use, this is to much but If the genoa goes on the length is required.
Anything much thinner than 8mm is difficult to grip to get a decent pull, especially when there is some wind in the sail. imho.
 
I've used 6mm for 30 years as it's the only way I can get the required amount on rope on the furler drum.
 
Stemar said:
The mast's up and now it's time to put the sails on, but the genoa furling line is missing. It's a huge, genny, so I know it's going to need a good bit of string, but can anyone tell me how much and what diameter, please?

She's a Catalac 8m.
Click to expand...

Steve,

How long is a piece of string.

Give us some clues. We are all very clever, we all want to help you. How big is the genny, how long is its foot, how big is your furler drum (inner diameter and outer diameter). We can guess how our sail might compare to yours - but we don't know.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Steve,

How long is a piece of string.

Give us some clues. We are all very clever, we all want to help you. How big is the genny, how long is its foot, how big is your furler drum (inner diameter and outer diameter). We can guess how our sail might compare to yours - but we don't know.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Ah, that means I'll have to take some measurements and report back. If I'm posting here, I'm not on the boat!

I know there are a few Catalac owners here, and a very helpful bunch they are - Boathook's one of them, so I think his answer may well be the way to go, in which case, the next question is how best to remove several metres of core from 8mm braid on braid?
 
We used uncovered dyneema, just 12 or 16 strand and simply spliced a tail on to allow handling. I spliced and then sewed. I bought a reel and used it for the lifelines (stanchions) You need a similar, slightly more turns (because the dyneema coils flat and is thinner,) and you need to judge the balance between the bit you will need to handle and the rest. Its difficult to be quantitative as one headsail (our Genoa) is 35m^2 and Dacron and the other is 45m^2 and mylar, they are on different furler designs - like you I'd need to go and count how many turns etc etc. We use 8mm for the tail we handle but we need gloves - in a blow its quite uncomfortable. The dyneema is also 8mm, nominally, but as I say - under tension when you furl it packs quite flat - whatever answer you get here you may need to pay around with the lengths as your cordage and sails might be different to who ever gives you the numbers.

Jonathan
 
Stemar said:
Ah, that means I'll have to take some measurements and report back. If I'm posting here, I'm not on the boat!

I know there are a few Catalac owners here, and a very helpful bunch they are - Boathook's one of them, so I think his answer may well be the way to go, in which case, the next question is how best to remove several metres of core from 8mm braid on braid?
Click to expand...
I think that i tied a knot over half way down and then 'milked?' the outer down exposing the inner. Once I had the length of inner exposed I wanted to remove ,I just cut the inner trying to give it a taper. The outer was then spread back out and the end sealed. Need to spread the rope out which makes life easier.
 
My Furlex gear has a specified line diameter, and it doesn't like anything thinner - riding turns abound! So I'd check the instructions and go with that.

Strength is unlikely to be an issue; polyester braid-on-braid in the sizes mentioned has SWLs measured in tonnes!

LATER
I checked and Selden specify a line size of 8mm. And I've just checked a few breaking strains, and the lowest was 1200 kgf; the highest around 2000 kgf. So 8mm is amply strong enough, and is what the makers of the gear recommend.
 
Last edited:
10mm on my 40' monohull. I wanted to use smaller to go through the retaining hole, but Jerry was insistent that thicker is better for this application (admittedly it's more pleasant to hand) and that the core should be removed so that it can to through the hole and be knotted. I have this idea that the thicker line lies better on the drum.
 
8mm on my 8meter Catalac but I can not remember the length. I seem to remember 10 metres but can not say with any certainty.
I did add a pulley on to the Pushpit to get the line to feed properly.
 
Can't answer the question but you should allow a good contingency length.

When you're furling or reefing the sail in a good breeze, the sail will make much tighter turns around the furling gear. So the gear will need to revolve more turns to furl than is normal. You want enough furling line on the furling drum to allow for this, otherwise you'll have a bit of sail still unfurled when you've pulled in all your furling line.
 
Getting the feed right is critical or you end up with all the turns at the top or bottom of the drum, the top or bottom fill and jamb on the cage - or worse fall off the drum, (get between drum and cage) and are wound round the swivel.

And don't forget the extra turns.

Our screecher, on the sprit, prodder, fills and luffs as we go over swells which cause the drum to rotate back and forth. The furling line can then go slack and less slack. We found that the furling line when slack can fall between drum and cage and when you want to furl it will not move till you go forward and put all the line back on the drum. Its worth have a little cam cleat in the transom to keep the line fairly taut (if you consider this an issue). To ensure its kept tight we added some bungy cord, about 8mm. The tail of the line is kept taut by the bungy but the bungy give enough stretch to allow you to grab the furling line itself.

Question for you

Do you have winches on the mast, and/or horn cleats? If so I have another fix for you

Jonathan

I thought I'd explain our furling line in more detail.

The line has turns on the drum, crosses the foredeck along the edge of the dross beam to a turning block on one bow. It then passes down the side deck through the bases of the stanchions (all such lines including our bridle also pass through the stanchion bases (keeps the side decks tidy and there is plenty of room). The furling line runs right to the extreme aft of the deck where there is another turning block. The furling line then passes forward. Slightly forward of the cockpit the furling line becomes bungy and the bungy runs forward to about 2m aft of the forward turning block on the bow and the bungy is secured to a stanchion base (simple knot.

When the sail is unfilled the furling line is wound round the drum, so some of it is 'used' and this shortening of the furling line automatically tensions the furling line. Half turns of the drum when the sail fills and luffs are done with the bungy stretched.

In the cockpit the rope end of the furling line is handy and can be grabbed and manipulated because the bungy is only partially stretched. If necessary we can put the furling line on a winch - but this only happens in strong wind - and then the sail furls more tightly - which is when you need the extra furling line and are able add extra turns.

Sounds complex? its very , very simple. :)

J
 
Last edited:
10 mm is the minimum for comfort on the hands.
If you cant fit 10mm on the furling drum,
maybe you could splice it onto 6 or8 mm for the drum.
 
Neeves said:
This is an article on the use of bungy for a furling line and answers my question (or the instructions) for winches on the mast.

DIY Rigging Hacks - Practical Sailor

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Interesting - I'll see if I have the same issue. If I do, I'll use that idea. I also like the idea of bungy to keep a bit of tension on the line. The official capacity for my furling drum is 13m of 6mm line, so I may have get a bit creative - and keep a pair of gloves handy for furling in a blow!

Splicing braid is out form me, it's a skill I've never mastered, but losing a few metres of the inner braid sounds like a goer.
 
Stemar said:
Interesting - I'll see if I have the same issue. If I do, I'll use that idea. I also like the idea of bungy to keep a bit of tension on the line. The official capacity for my furling drum is 13m of 6mm line, so I may have get a bit creative - and keep a pair of gloves handy for furling in a blow!

Splicing braid is out form me, it's a skill I've never mastered, but losing a few metres of the inner braid sounds like a goer.
Click to expand...
Steve,

You don't need to splice.

Think about it - the thin (but strong, that's why you use Dyneema) is on the drum. The drum is up at the bow and when you. furl you are down at the stern. The 'working part' needs to feed through a lead so that the rope on the drum furls correctly ideally in the middle of the drum. The bit you are going to hold runs from that feed (a small block) back to the cockpit.

You can simply tie a knot, or just sew the two pieces together. All you need to ensure is that when the sail is set the join is 'your' side the the feed block and that you have enough rope (the dyneema) on the drum side of the block. When you furl the Genoa I really cannot think you are going to have as much as a deck length + half your beam of dyneema anywhere near your hands.

I think you are worrying too much :). You are going to be pleasantly surprised.

But do keep the gloves handy!

Jonathan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top