Jane and I are helping to deliver a Gunfleet 58 to Southampton

[Wansworth]

Oh dear.......but the yachting mag journals seemed quite pleased

 

[sailorman]

Well it was a bit of a disaster one of the SS rods used for steering the rudder failed, eventually a new one was sent and we only had time to do a day sail to test it worked. One interesting thing is it has bow and stern thrusters and there is a 'hold' function that holds the boat against the pontoon so a single hander can tie the warps. The mast is 85 feet high and the displacement is 34 tons it also has a lifting keel.

What really surprised us is we were sailing up wind in 20 knots of wind and the boat was heeled so the sea was just about five inches below the toe rail, if you have that you have to hang on with one hand making it almost impossible to get dressed, undressed or cook, the other thing was the seas were only two feet and downwind the boat was rolling, Their site doesn't give keel weight but the above suggests the weight is significantly less than required it needs a much heavier keel or the other option is fit a significantly smaller mast or a mix of both.

To put that into context we had a heavy displacement long keel with cutaway forefoot steel ketch and in 20 knots upwind it would heel 10 degrees it also wouldn't roll in in that tiny sea. The bottom line is even if we had the money we would never buy one.

But some here much prefer new AWBs to MABs that are good seaboats & req loadsa £s continually spent to maintain them

 

[JumbleDuck]

Oh dear.......but the yachting mag journals seemed quite pleased

As one of their reviewers has written, he likes a chance to "big up" a British builder.

 

[Lucky Duck]

But some here much prefer new AWBs to MABs that are good seaboats & req loadsa £s continually spent to maintain them

Depends what you want out of your sailing but I'd consider 10 degrees heel in 20 knots wind (true?) as rather underpowered

 

[DJE]

What really surprised us is we were sailing up wind in 20 knots of wind and the boat was heeled so the sea was just about five inches below the toe rail, if you have that you have to hang on with one hand making it almost impossible to get dressed, undressed or cook,

Sounds like she wanted a reef in.

 

[Neeves]

I'd forgotten that with larger yachts today they will have bow, and as it turns out, stern thrusters making handling easier in marinas and fuel wharfs.

You do not mention what sort of speeds you were making in 20 knots. I suspect that you would be ready to reef at that point, which might keep the heel under control.

But unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time (and money) on maintenance then long keeled heavy displacement yachts are a thing of the past (or a very expensive bespoke production). So - if you want to actually spend time sailing you need an AWB.

Jonathan

edit, great minds, crossed posts.

 

[Saguday]

I disagree.

 

[Simondjuk]

Well it was a bit of a disaster one of the SS rods used for steering the rudder failed, eventually a new one was sent and we only had time to do a day sail to test it worked. One interesting thing is it has bow and stern thrusters and there is a 'hold' function that holds the boat against the pontoon so a single hander can tie the warps. The mast is 85 feet high and the displacement is 34 tons it also has a lifting keel.

What really surprised us is we were sailing up wind in 20 knots of wind and the boat was heeled so the sea was just about five inches below the toe rail, if you have that you have to hang on with one hand making it almost impossible to get dressed, undressed or cook, the other thing was the seas were only two feet and downwind the boat was rolling, Their site doesn't give keel weight but the above suggests the weight is significantly less than required it needs a much heavier keel or the other option is fit a significantly smaller mast or a mix of both.

To put that into context we had a heavy displacement long keel with cutaway forefoot steel ketch and in 20 knots upwind it would heel 10 degrees it also wouldn't roll in in that tiny sea. The bottom line is even if we had the money we would never buy one.

Evidently, you fail to understand what the Gunfleet 58 is primarily built to do.

 

[Neeves]

I disagree.

With what? or are you taking about life in general?

 

[Uricanejack]

Well it was a bit of a disaster one of the SS rods used for steering the rudder failed, eventually a new one was sent and we only had time to do a day sail to test it worked. One interesting thing is it has bow and stern thrusters and there is a 'hold' function that holds the boat against the pontoon so a single hander can tie the warps. The mast is 85 feet high and the displacement is 34 tons it also has a lifting keel.

What really surprised us is we were sailing up wind in 20 knots of wind and the boat was heeled so the sea was just about five inches below the toe rail, if you have that you have to hang on with one hand making it almost impossible to get dressed, undressed or cook, the other thing was the seas were only two feet and downwind the boat was rolling, Their site doesn't give keel weight but the above suggests the weight is significantly less than required it needs a much heavier keel or the other option is fit a significantly smaller mast or a mix of both.

To put that into context we had a heavy displacement long keel with cutaway forefoot steel ketch and in 20 knots upwind it would heel 10 degrees it also wouldn't roll in in that tiny sea. The bottom line is even if we had the money we would never buy one.

I must be weird. I love it when I am sailing with the water just a few inches below the tow rail.
And if I ever get the opportunity to sail a fancy dancy big boat. I wont tell everyone I though it was rubbish just in case I don't get invited back.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Depends what you want out of your sailing but I'd consider 10 degrees heel in 20 knots wind (true?) as rather underpowered

Chuck Paine designs to his "20-20" rule. Under full sail you are heeled to 20^o in 20kt of wind.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I disagree.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Evidently, you fail to understand what the Gunfleet 58 is primarily built to do.

Host parties in posh marinas, no?

 

[KellysEye]

>Depends what you want out of your sailing but I'd consider 10 degrees heel in 20 knots wind (true?) as rather underpowered

A ketch has three sails so the main mast is much smaller than a similar sized sloop so you get much less heel for any wind speed. Another thing it does in a strong gust it heels but starts to move back upright even though the gust is still there.

>>Evidently, you fail to understand what the Gunfleet 58 is primarily built to do.

What is it built to do other than sail long distances and be easily docked with the thrusters?

 

[tudorsailor]

The mast is 85 feet high and the displacement is 34 tons it also has a lifting keel.

.................it needs a much heavier keel or the other option is fit a significantly smaller mast or a mix of both.

To put that into context we had a heavy displacement long keel with cutaway forefoot steel ketch and in 20 knots upwind it would heel 10 degrees it also wouldn't roll in in that tiny sea. The bottom line is even if we had the money we would never buy one.

Interesting! The Gunfleet site gives displacement as 31 tonnes. In comparison an Oyster 575 has a displacement of 27tonnes. Oysters are not known a rolly craft or being too light, so there may be a more fundamental design feature/flaw that makes the Gunfleet heavier heel so easily and so rolly. Of course Gunfleet's owner is Richard Matthews who founded Oyster!
TudorSailor

 

[[3889]]

... and there is a 'hold' function that holds the boat against the pontoon so a single hander can tie the warps.

I have that on my boat, comprising the engine and a piece of rope.

 

[Saguday]

With what? or are you taking about life in general?

Sorry, got diverted. I disagree with :

But unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time (and money) on maintenance then long keeled heavy displacement yachts are a thing of the past (or a very expensive bespoke production). So - if you want to actually spend time sailing you need an AWB.
.

We have a long keeled (quite) heavy production yacht without bow thrusters that costs no more to maintain than an equivalent AWB. We can go sailing as often as any AWB owner, the constraints are the usual ones around 'life in general' not due to any intrinsic restrictions imposed by having a long keel boat. Hence I disagree with with your assertion that you won't do much sailing unless you have an AWB.

 

[KellysEye]

>The Gunfleet site gives displacement as 31 tonnes.

The figure I gave is what the owner told me, having looked it up he is wrong and you are right.

> Oysters are not known a rolly craft or being too light, so there may be a more fundamental design feature/flaw that makes the Gunfleet heavier heel so easily and so rolly.

I think the lifting keel, it's too light, a problem that Oysters don't have, Gunfleet is intending to build another version of the 58 with a traditional keel so thay may sort out the severe heeling problem.

 

[sailorman]

>The Gunfleet site gives displacement as 31 tonnes.

The figure I gave is what the owner told me, having looked it up he is wrong and you are right.

> Oysters are not known a rolly craft or being too light, so there may be a more fundamental design feature/flaw that makes the Gunfleet heavier heel so easily and so rolly.

I think the lifting keel, it's too light, a problem that Oysters don't have, Gunfleet is intending to build another version of the 58 with a traditional keel so thay may sort out the severe heeling problem.

wasnt this 58 built on commission as the owner wanted a lift keel & another ( now defunct ) builder wasnt interested, & Gunfleet said yes Sir we can do that, pls sign here

 

[Neeves]

Sorry, got diverted. I disagree with :



We have a long keeled (quite) heavy production yacht without bow thrusters that costs no more to maintain than an equivalent AWB. We can go sailing as often as any AWB owner, the constraints are the usual ones around 'life in general' not due to any intrinsic restrictions imposed by having a long keel boat. Hence I disagree with with your assertion that you won't do much sailing unless you have an AWB.

You are obviously lucky and keep maintenance up to date. Most of the yachts I see that are 20 years or older, so still AWBs, need too much TLC and don't move to much. Liveaboards, many of whom have older yachts, don't have this issue - as they keep up with maintenance.

I was generalising, apologies.

Jonathan