Jammers vs Cleats

zoidberg

zoidberg

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I'm looking to mount some 'devices' on my mast to take the load of some halyards. There are two for headsails on furlers, a spi halyard, a main - and a topping lift.
Both the latter will be brought back to the cockpit/coachroof.

Some boats have a pair of cam cleats per headsail halyard, in a vertical line to facilitate 'sweating up'. Others have jammers mounted.

What are the respective merits....?
 
Very appropriate question for me having just made a similar decision (and ordered the bits) today. Spinlock clutches for the main and reefing lines led aft. Did toy with a cam cleat for the topping lift because it rarely if ever needs the winch but went for another clutch because the boom is long and heavy as we discovered earlier today when we finished rigging the boat and the clutch gives more control.

At the mast the decision may not be so clear cut. On my Bavaria the main halyard was left at the mast because there is little or no benefit in adjusting it underway (in mast furling). However it had to be really sweated up and locked so needed to go back to a winch just for that. I fitted a Spinlock in line on the mast so the halyard could be sweated up, locked off and the tail brought back to the mast freeing up a clutch at the winch end.

I think in the end it is your choice depending on what you think will be more effective. Of course cost comes into it as cam cleats are much cheaper to buy and fit than clutches.
 
I like a good big horn cleat. Cheap and never slip. Clutches are expensive and do slip sometimes. On my little boat i take all back to the cockpit to small winches and horn cleats the one exception being clutch on main halyard (which does slip) (it was given to me ) so main halyard also goes around horn cleats.
Racing people will set up spin halyard with a clutch at the mast. (on larger boats) The halyard exits the mast quite high so that you can reach up to grasp the halyard and pull down to a clutch. The halyard is still led back to cabin top to as cleat so that once set up the spin halyard clutch is opened allowing for spin halyard to be released from cockpit. ol'will
 
Depends on yacht and/or sail size. Above a certain size you cannot tension a halyard sufficiently by hand so you need a winch, somewhere in the system (on the mast or at the cockpit). It can be very difficult to release a cam cleat, or a 'V' cleat if it is under tension. If you use something like a Code Zero that is unstayed and relies on dyneema and tension to point then a clutch can strip the outer sheath and you really need to leave the halyard on the winch - to spread the load. This means you need a dedicated winch just for the Code Zero - but maybe this problem has been solved. You cannot easily sweat a big spinnaker that has prematurely filled - you need a winch. We used a clutch on the mast for the spinnaker, because it was self locking as you raised the sail. Once raised we would swap to an in line cleat. The bow man could then easily release the halyard - just by flipping it out of the cleat - but you need to ensure the halyard will run clean.

There is no one right, or best, way it depends on you, your crew (if any), size of sail, type of sailing - and importantly as Tranona says (or implies) - the size of your wallet. Clutches are really nice but cleats, slightly, cheaper.

For cruising having everything in the cockpit is nice, but that means a decent bank of deck organisers, enough winches, clutches and a bulging wallet. Racing with a big crew - when its busy its better if some of the aids are NOT in the cockpit as they they can be operated without everyone standing on each other's toes.

Jonathan
 
zoidberg said:
I'm looking to mount some 'devices' on my mast to take the load of some halyards.
. . .
What are the respective merits....?
Click to expand...

Are you planning on using them to permanently take the halyard load, or just temporarily while you’re hoisting the sails?

If they’re being left for weeks/months then I’d use side mounted jammers for all the halyards.
Topping lift and pole up haul I’d go with cam cleats. Possibly even a horn cleat for the topping lift.
 
I 'spect to have two headsails on furling kit, and I'd hope to remember to ease the loads when stopped/moored. I'll likely put these on jammers.

There will be an 'independent' setup for a proper small storm jib ( i.e. sized for storm conditions ) and I'm unsure of the best 'jammer vs camcleat' answer for that.

Same thing with the spinnaker halyard setup.*


*I've twice had my butt severely bitten by leaving a spinnaker mast jammer 'ON' when it should have been cleared 'OFF'..... and then being caught by a B-I-G gust front that didn't die down after a few seconds. Both times on lightweight racing multis......

Once was entirely my fault ( can't blame the 'young and lovely' with me. She hadn't sailed before.... or since! :LOL: )
One was the owners' fault ( and his equally boy-racer son ) I HAD spotted the sharp drop in the baro, and mentioned it. But should have shouted a darn sight louder....
Picture 4 stalwarts 'sitting-out' an all-carbon racing tri, all as far back behind the backstay as we could get!
 
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For me I would choose Spinlock clutches for halyards (and topping lifts and kicking straps)- at least that's what I use. Find them easy to use, easy to release and of course you can haul away and just stop at any point without worrying about making fast around a cleat or in a jammer which is very useful when putting in or taking out a reef for example . If your worried about slippage you can have a nice old fashioned cleat to fasten off to - have them fitted too.
 
If installing a clutch on the mast you may need to have a pad between the slot/sheave where the halyard comes out and the winch, in order to get the angles right.
Seldén has something called a stopper pad, part no 523-048-01.
Selden Stopper Pad
Can be seen in this photo with a Spinlock XAS mounted on its side. This holds my genoa halyard and has been functioning really well.
mast%20clutch.jpg
 
I'm an old hand on this sort of thing and prefer a bog standard cleat. I accept that my boat is not of a size that makes it a problem ... but I do have an advantage on the main halyard.

The halyard leads from the sheave at heel up to the winch on mast side - main is tensioned and then halyard is in line AFTER winch to cleat off. This gives advantage not only hoisting - but also dropping the main under control and not that snatch as you release from cleat.

Foresail halyard - I spanish sweat as really a furler genny as long as reasonably tensioned has shape due to the foil. Well that's my opinion anyway.

A cleat as long as you don't jam one turn under another / enter cleat wrong side with line - can always be released ... even when extreme load. Any jamming unit under extreme load - can lock such that in emergency can prove a problem.

That's my opinion anyway for what its worth.
 
Refueler said:
The halyard leads from the sheave at heel up to the winch on mast side - main is tensioned and then halyard is in line AFTER winch to cleat off. This gives advantage not only hoisting - but also dropping the main under control and not that snatch as you release from cleat.
Click to expand...

My main halyard is similar and I believe this must be the normal way for halyards operated at the mast. And that is fine as long as the winch is not needed for anything else.
The genoa halyard winch however I wanted to free for using to hoist a sail on an inner forestay, therefore the clutch.
 
BabaYaga said:
My main halyard is similar and I believe this must be the normal way for halyards operated at the mast. And that is fine as long as the winch is not needed for anything else.
The genoa halyard winch however I wanted to free for using to hoist a sail on an inner forestay, therefore the clutch.
Click to expand...


Understood ... and I assume that inner foresail will be hanked or self stayed - not a furler. Most boats I've sailed - even racing with furler - winch was not really needed for the furler sail ..... so surely the winch could be put over to the inner foresail ??
 
Refueler said:
Understood ... and I assume that inner foresail will be hanked or self stayed - not a furler. Most boats I've sailed - even racing with furler - winch was not really needed for the furler sail ..... so surely the winch could be put over to the inner foresail ??
Click to expand...

Yes, tanked on inner stay jib. The winch is certainly needed for hoisting and for tensioning the roller genoa. If the halyard is cleated AFTER the winch, then the tension has to be released in order to use the winch for the inner stay halyard (and then retensioned). That would be possible, as I do not use both fore sails at the same time, but a bit awkward.
 
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