Jam Cleat attached to a line ?

eebygum

eebygum

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I'm looking to setup a traveller system for my mainsheet block which currently is attached to a shackle which runs up and down the SS bar wich runs behind the cockpit (see picture in link for close-up)

[image]http://www.contessa26moonshine.me.uk/photos/117-1763_IMG.html[/image]

I've seen a smiliar traveller system on another Contessa which had jam cleats screwed into the vertical stanchions of the pushpit at either end; but I don't want to do this as could weaken the integrity of the vertical stanchions

Ideally what I is a type of jam cleat which is permantely attached to one of the lines on the traveller (at the block end); which I would use to jam off the line when moving the mainsheet block (via the shackle) up and down the stainless steel bar which would have pulleys either end.

Difficult to describe but hope you get the picture; any ideas if there is such a peice of kit ?

Cheers, Andrew
 
My Snapdragon just had a bar and prevented the mainsheet from being held to windward. I never got round to doing it as I changed boats but I had planned to fix a camcleat each end of the bar (the bits to do this were in the local chandlers) and simply have a rope going each way from the mainsheet block so that you could at least manually heave the sheet up the track and jam it off.
 
Thanks for Dylflin posting my picture correctly as a link.

Yep Moodysabre and Morgana have the gist of the idea...I find when sailing to windward the shackle (with attached mainsheet block) will tend to slip down the bar; the only way to currently get around this is to tie the mainsheet across to one of the winches; but the rope across the cockpit tends to pin you in the corner of the cockpit when steering.

I was going to fit a pulley at each end of the bar, to give a 2:1 purchase and make it easy to pull from the windward side of the cockpit so the end I want to tie off is at the mainsheet end of the line; hence I was thinking could I find some type of clamsheet which attaches to the line ? could equally attach to the shackle on the bar. Just wanted to avoid drilling holes in the bar to attach the clamcleat in either the bar or vertical stanchion..... thinking about it I guess rather than taking it back to the mainsheet I could take it down to a pulley and to a deckfitted clamcleat, why did'nt I think of that first time !

Cheers
 
My Contessa has the same traveller arrangement as yours except the lines holding the main shackle in place are turned through blocks shackled to the anchor points at the top and bottom of the stanchions and up to a couple of jam cleats fixed to a wood block at the centre of the cockpit coaming.
Its no good in any strength of breeze unless you just fix the amount of travel either side of centre when there is no tension on the mainsheet.
Better would be to run each side through a block and tackle to give a reasonable purchase and cross them over so that you can trim from the windward side of the cockpit. How you cleat them off is a detail.
I've considered using a "continuous loop" of line and single cleat so that hauling the traveller to windward, the leeward pulley takes up the slack.
Mike
 
A traveller system can have the cleats for the adjustment takle at either the centre or at each end on the hull. You need to decide which you want.

On my little boat 21ft ( large main) the mainsheet traveller is a much used tackle. I have 3 purchase on each side. The traveller track runs across just aft of the cabin entrance so attaches to the boom at a point about half way out. (so main sheet and traveller system need a lot of power) If you attach the sheet at the boom end of course you have much more leverage. A track of course has less friction than a shackle on a tube. So is good for racing.

At the ends of the track there is a turning block and the traveller rope runs vertically about 10cms to a cam cleat mounted vertically on the inside of the side of the cockpit above the seat.
All boats are different in shape so this is convenient for a person sitting forward of the sheet winches sitting on a wide gunwhale area with the traveller rope coming up between the knees. They can get a fair bit of power pulling upward and it also gives them a rope to hang onto.

So that is great when you have a crew but for single handing or actually sitting in the cockpit not so convenient. For single handing it might be more convenient to have the traveller cleat near the traveller itself. Thats why I say figure out what is convenient for you.

One trick I use is to have the pulleys at the mainsheet end actually on wire links about 30cms long. ie from the mainsheet pulley a 30cm flexible wire to the pulley for the traveller rope. replicated on the other side. The logic is that you never pull the traveller much above centre. By fitting a wire strop I save 3 times the length of the strop in rope. Which means less rope lying in the cockpit.
I do a similar thing with the main sheet itself. With a 30cm strop from the boom down to the top pulleys.

So I hope i have given you some food for thought. It should not be difficult to attach cam cleats to the pushpit if you make up a SS sheet plate to clamp onto the tube rather than drilling.

If you want the cleats in the centre near the mainsheet pulley your arrangement will be a bit difficult. You may be able to find a recirculating ball type traveller to go onto the tube(or if you go to a normal traveller on T track then the cleats can be attached to the traveller via a plate of SS. If you want to stick to the shackle on the tube then you will be stuck with cleats at the outside.
You might consider getting or making a sheave block with a wide pulley to run under the tube for less friction.
good luck olewill
 
My sheet horse ... that's the name for the raised rail that the shackle runs along ... has two thumb screw locking clamps that fit the rail .. I can move them to any point I want to set the shackle point on the rail ... I normally leave them in centre .. rarely moving them ... but a quick twist of the thumb screw and bobs proverbial ... (actually I put a wire twist between both to keep permament in middle - but that's easily removed and not essential)

030-August72007_SA008.jpg


Sorry about the socks drying next to it !! Look closely and you'll see they are plastic discs cut in half - with screws passing through to clamp onto the rail.

Simple .. no need for jam cleats / lines etc.
 
Tony,
Thanks, that is EXATCTLY what i'm looking for. One of these either side of the shackle holding the mainsheet block will allow me to run from the shackly to a pulley at the end of the bar and then back to the clamcleat.

May still consider the other options but this is what I was looking for.

Cheers
 
EndeavourQuay..... thanks I never never knew what those rubber stoppers were for ! they are stuck solid and I've never been able to move them, there's me thinking they were some type of stopper for the shackle !


Cheers, Andrew
 
SBC,
Thanks, the best ideas are the simplest and I like the idea of the thumbscrews and have something in mind.

I started down this track as I saw another Contessa in Liverpool marina last weekend which had the lines and jam cleats in the vertical stanchions, and I was trying to improve on the design..... but this seems to meet my design principles of KISS & TOUCH

Keep it Simple Stupid ... The Over-design Usually Costs Heaps

Cheers, Andrew
 
Locking discs ...

I'd never seen them before I got present boat ... On previous I'd thought as you .... all sorts of lines etc. but whatever I thought of ended up clumsy and lines all over the place.

The jamming cleats that gandy linked to are good ... but then its 2 lines to tend ... unless you have it unclippable from one side to other ....

There are various items that could provide a locking disc affair .... They don't actually have to be that tight screwed up - as the sheet shackle tends to cant at an angle making the disc skew and bind ... helping it stay in place you choose.

Of course after having a race boat with track and car with spring loaded locking stops - that was the best of all !!
 
I wonder if warming them gently or trying to get wd40 type product to run under the rubber would loosen them. Mine slide to what ever position I want to hold the block to, yours shouldnt have been glued or anything so it might be worth trying to free them off, definately the cheapest and simplest method to solve it.
Thinking about it, David Sadler and Jeramy Rogers would have designed in a system to hold the traveller, and that was it. Good luck with freeing it,
 
WD40 is maybe not so good for a plastic / rubber product ... with the solvents etc. in it .... similarly Duck Oil etc.

Maybe better with washing up liquid !! seriously !! or warm water ..
 
Do it the other way round, with the blocks at the mainsheet block and the cleats on the side deck. That way the windward one, which you'll probably want to adjust most often, is easily to hand. Also the free ends of the adjusting line are less likely to become fouled in the mainsheet or mainsheet block. To save you some work - but probably not cash - some mainsheet tackles come with these blocks built-in.
 
But surely you still have to let go the previous line to take up the other ... so whether at block or on deck - does it really make that much difference ?
 
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