Jabsco Sea Toilet Suddenly Stopped Working

[Slipperman]

A year ago I fitted a new Jabsco Manual Toilet and it has worked perfectly until yesterday. Three of us had been out for a sail, and the loo was used several times without problems. When we got back to my berth, I went to have a final pee and found the that the loo took in a small amount of water but then the pump seem to pressurise and I could neither pump in nor out.

On investigation this morning I took apart and checked all the obvious parts including:
- the top control box - all OK with no weed or blockages and the small hook lever intact and working
- the bottom flap valve all OK
- joker valve all oK and not dirty
- anti siphon valves both seemed OK

With the outlet hose disconnected, the inlet side pumped fine.

But the problem persisted, so clutching at straws I even swapped pumps to the old one which I had kept as a spare. There was no improvement so I have concluded that it probably is not a pump problem.

So am I right to think that the problem must be with the outlet hose? Since the loo was new a year ago, nothing solid has gone down it, only wee. I looked to see if there might be some plastic around where the seacocks are, but could not see anything.

Befor I start to think about changing hoses(and a possible lift out), does anyone have any other ideas? I though I knew my way round these loos fairly well, but this time I am completely stumped.

 

[Boathook]

Put a dinghy pump on the outlet and inlet and see whether you can push air through the pipes so that they are clear. I used my dinghy pump to unblock the inlet to my lavac after it sucked in mud and blocked.

 

[PeterBoater]

As it is happening with two pumps, this might not be the problem but it is known that the little flip lever next to the pump handle has to be hard against its stop, otherwise the pump will jam as you describe. Even with the flip lever only fractionally off its stop, the pump will not work. Is some tiny obstruction preventing the lever reaching its proper stop?

 

[LittleSister]

You have checked the outlet seacock?

 

[lustyd]

nothing solid has gone down it, only wee

Despite lots of people advocating this, it's really not a good way to treat your loo. Solids will help by rubbing the inside of the pipe and seacock so clear a bit of the scale that urine and seawater will build up. Especially if you're not pumping a lot of times on every flush, and chances are that not everyone does their allocated 15-20 pumps as you'd hope.

 

[Bodach na mara]

The answer is in post #3. This happens with my Jabsco and ensuring that the small lever is fully over to one side or the other always sorts the problem.

 

[Slipperman]

Hi thanks for replies so far. The seacock was open all afternoon and I am not sure it would suddenly fail shut (its a DZR ball valve). I tend to agree with Posts 3 and 6 that something isn't quite working with the pump, because the problem came on so suddenly, but I have tried again this afternoon, checking both top and bottom flap valves and wiggling the little lever whilst trying to pump, so far without success. Will return to the fray tomorrow.

 

[VicS]

Hi thanks for replies so far. The seacock was open all afternoon and I am not sure it would suddenly fail shut (its a DZR ball valve). I tend to agree with Posts 3 and 6 that something isn't quite working with the pump, because the problem came on so suddenly, but I have tried again this afternoon, checking both top and bottom flap valves and wiggling the little lever whilst trying to pump, so far without success. Will return to the fray tomorrow.

The symptoms you describe, in particular that you can pump water in Ok when the outlet hose is disconnected, indicates that the outlet is blocked. Probably due to calcium carbonate scaling as a result of not flushing the pee away fully.

Bacteria attacking nitrogen compounds in the urine produce ammonia. The ammonia raises the pH, covering bicarbonate in the water to carbonate. Calcium carbonate, which is highly insoluble is then deposited as scale.

 

[LittleSister]

If it was the little lever, why did the problem persist when the valve assembly was swopped, and the OP (if I understood him correctly) had specifically checked that lever?

If the outlet was blocked by a build-up of scale, why did it suddenly stop working after 'working perfectly' only shortly before?

 

[LittleSister]

You have checked the outlet seacock?

The seacock was open all afternoon and I am not sure it would suddenly fail shut (its a DZR ball valve).

I notice you didn't actually answer my question! The seacock could have been closed by gremlins - them being well known as a common source of problems on boats. ?

 

[Slipperman]

Sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by checking the seacock - I can successfully move the handle but don't know if the ball valve is moving as it is impossible to see. It was clearly open whilst we were out sailing (because we were using the loo) and had not been closed before the problems started. I guess I could get my snorkel out and try rodding it from the outside. How else to check with the boat afloat? Can an open seacock really just suddenly close itself?

 

[Daydream believer]

My bet is that you have a build up of calcium. My pipes reduced to the size of a pencil after a short while. Then a piece has dislodged, or a small piece of paper has been placed in the loo. It only needs the smallest piece. & the pipe is now blocked.
I suggest disconnecting the pipe at the pump & having a look. If it is awkward because the way it is plumbed in then remove the pump. Remove the joker valve & poke a stiff wire in the pipe & see if it can be moved about easily.
If you have a black water tank, then old efluent can sit in the bottom & then block the outlet to the tank or suddenly move down to the seacock & cause a blockage there.
I also suggest shutting the seacock. & disconnecting the pipe from it. It may be difficult, but can be made easier by wrapping a tea towel around it soaked in boiling water. Keep the water boiling & this will warm the pipe & expand it so it can be worked off.

Of course like all good sailors you will have a wooden bung handy to stop the hole in case there is an issue with the seacock not closing. ?

You can at this point work the seacock open & shut quickly to see if it is working. The handle may have come loose & it is not opening, or it is blocked. Water pressure from outside should blow back any blockage but a bit of wire will help.
Before doing this check the nut holding the handle. You do not want it to drop off with the seacock open. It may be that it is already loose & you have not actually opened the valve anyway.
If you have a calcium issue you may be able to clear it by pumping a few litres of white vinegar, or brick cleaner, into the pipe (although you will need to get some movement of liquid first) & leaving it overnight. Several treatments will be needed. This softens the calcium & you may be able to clear it by pumping copious amounts of water through. This is a useful maintenance item anyway, even if it is not the cause of your problem.
I was able to get thepipe out, bash it on the floor & break the calcium up & poke it out with a long rod. Later I replaced the pipe with a new soft , non wired sanitary hose that I can squeeze with a G cramp. This lets me crack any calcium in the pipe & pump it out before it builds up.

 

[LittleSister]

Sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by checking the seacock - I can successfully move the handle but don't know if the ball valve is moving as it is impossible to see. It was clearly open whilst we were out sailing (because we were using the loo) and had not been closed before the problems started. I guess I could get my snorkel out and try rodding it from the outside. How else to check with the boat afloat? Can an open seacock really just suddenly close itself?

What I meant was checking that it hadn't been accidentally closed by yourself or crew (e.g as part of the 'end of trip' routine), and then forgetting that could be a possibility. (It wouldn't be the first time someone on here has done that!)

No, I don't believe a seacock could close itself. I think if the handle was failing to turn the ball you would be able to feel that.

But it should be easy enough to narrow down the search - just close the seacock and take the hose off it. If it still won't pump, take it off at the toilet end. If it works now, the hose is blocked - replace it. If it still doesn't work it is definitely the toilet itself.

 

[Slipperman]

Thanks for the additional input - as several of you chaps have suggested, I need to confirm whether it is the pump or the outlet pipe which is causing the problem. So today I am heading off to buy a length of outlet pipe which I will connect to the pump with joker valve etc all in place, and route to a bucket. If the pump works, then I will know it is a blockage in the boat's pipes.

 

[ashtead]

Based on your posts would assume you don’t have a holding tank and the outlet flows directly to seacock. As said if you disconnect the pump unit from the basis this might travel source of outlet issue . Personally I would order a length of outlet pipe to take with you and use this exploratory event to replace the outlet pipe anyway . Do research type of pipe to buy as some seem to be more flexible than others to install.

 

[Poignard]

Despite lots of people advocating this, it's really not a good way to treat your loo. Solids will help by rubbing the inside of the pipe and seacock so clear a bit of the scale that urine and seawater will build up. Especially if you're not pumping a lot of times on every flush, and chances are that not everyone does their allocated 15-20 pumps as you'd hope.

That's an interesting idea but doesn't the bog paper get shredded by the joker valve?

My discharge pipe is as old as the boat (55 years) and the Jabsco toilet operates very easily. I have never had to clear a blockage.

But we do pump a lot of flushing water through.

Anyway, enough of this; it's time for breakfast!

 

[Lightwave395]

I would recommend Vetus rubber sanitary hose, expensive yes but well worth the money IMHO

 

[LittleSister]

I would recommend Vetus rubber sanitary hose, expensive yes but well worth the money IMHO

Yes, I agree (if it's for the purposes of replacing the existing). It's more flexible than the cheaper stuff, and much easier to get onto the fittings, especially important in awkward or hard to reach locations.

 

[LadyInBed]

With the outlet hose disconnected, the inlet side pumped fine.

But the problem persisted, so clutching at straws I even swapped pumps to the old one which I had kept as a spare. There was no improvement so I have concluded that it probably is not a pump problem.

So am I right to think that the problem must be with the outlet hose?

Looks like you already know that it's the outlet hose!

 

[Poignard]

Maybe the last person to use it blocked it, and won't confess to his/her crime