J Class sunk in the Holy Loch?

[cameronke]

Greetings all!

I heard at the weekend that (allegedly) a J Class; The Valkyrie, lies sunk in the Holy Loch on the Clyde.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Regards
Cameron

<hr width=100% size=1>Work to live, live to sail

 

[Nick_Pam]

Exerpt from:
http://scuttlebutteurope.com/111.php

The 1893 challenger Valkyrie II was sunk in a collision with Satanita on the Clyde in July 1894. She was recovered, but never raced again. She was broken up and lead from her keel was used in the Earl of Dunraven's next challenger, Valkyrie III in 1895. -- Ivor Wilkins, full text at www.louisvuittoncup.yahoo.com/story941.html

<hr width=100% size=1>Byeee...Gone Sailing!!!!

 

[PeteMcK]

One was certainly sunk outside the Holy Loch in a spectacular racing collision with another J (avoiding an oary boat with spectators!) but I think it was raised soon after. If I remember correctly, the full account's in 'Total Loss'.

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[cameronke]

Thanks Nick/Pam, Thanks Pete

I can put away my diving gear and forget about salvage then....

regards

Cameron

<hr width=100% size=1>Work to live, live to sail

 

[dwatson]

If you are looking for bits of her, I remember being told that the flag pole at the old Royal Clyde Yacht Club at Hunters Quay (now the marine hotel I think) was Made from part of Valkyrie's mast!

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[cameronke]

Hi Dwatson

I had heard that the flag at Larrezzo Point (or whatever it is called) had come from the Valkyrie and that is where this post came from.

Oh to have seen those ladies racing on the Clyde.....

Drifts off into whistful nostalgic dreaming

regards
Cameron

<hr width=100% size=1>Work to live, live to sail

 

[Aja]

Cameron

Peter Currie's father and uncle were both professional skippers on the big yachts when they came north to race.

Pete Currie (fishing boat Tricia Anne) from Tighnabruaich is ex GP14 World Champion and Laser National champion. Now races Grand Cru an H-Boat at Tighnabruaich.

Dr Jeremy Thomson - also of Tighnabruaich was tactition on Sceptre in the America's Cup.

All that knowledge out of one wee village.

Have sailed with both Pete and Jeremy....

Donald

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[cameronke]

Hi Donald

Would love to meet them for a blether in the pub!

Remember the stories the late Sandy Robertson (of Robersons Boatyard descent, did the moorings before Neil Cunningham) used to tell with his wonderful wry wit

Aren't you off cruising West coast/Ireland soon?

Regards
Cameron

<hr width=100% size=1>Work to live, live to sail

 

[Aja]

Cameron

I suspect that Sandy was involved in the building of Sceptre.

I know that Pete still crews on the big boats for Scottish Series and West Highland week when he's not fishing.

Away a week on friday. Will be in Rothesay that night for the start of the Tobermory race (part 1) which starts saturday at 6.00 (am!!!)

Think we will either be sitting in Wreck Bay this weekend or round to Tarbert. Hopefully a quiet one....

Regards

Donald

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[extravert]

Pity. You could have used your ten quid wet'n'dry vac to pump her out and raise her.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I want to be a real sailor. In the mean time I'll just keep tri-ing.

 

[cameronke]

Hi Extravert

You may have just scuppered the buisness plan for Kennedy Salvage International

Did you get fixed up with one?

Regards
Cameron


<hr width=100% size=1>Work to live, live to sail

 

[extravert]

It's on its way. If you need another one to help yours pump out Valkyrie, you're welcome to rent it.

Extraneous Salvage Equipment Hire Inc.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I want to be a real sailor. In the mean time I'll just keep tri-ing.

 

[Mirelle]

The full chapter and verse...

This was the cause of a celebrated lawsuit, known to law students as:

Clarke v Dunraven [1897] AC 59

i.e. it is a House of Lords Judgement. (Suitably enough, as the owner of the "Valkyrie" was the Earl of Dunraven!) Mr Clarke owned the "Satanita", the biggest and fastest of all the old Big Class racing yachts, which was once timed at 16 knots, onn a close reach.

Most summaries of the law reports of the case miss the key point, since they centre on the law of contract issue and ignore why it arose. At risk of boring you silly, here is the full story:

Both Clarke and Dunraven were entrants in a regatta organised by the Mudhook Yacht Club. Each had signed a letter to the secretary of the Club undertaking that he would be bound by the rules of the Club. These rules provided that the owner of any yacht which, in breach of the rules, fouled another entrant, would be liable to pay for all damages arising therefrom.

The collision arose, really, due to the carelessness of the Mudhook YC in arranging starts for different classes close together. This problem has recurred recently in regattas for large classic yachts in the West Indies and the Mediterranean. The speed and power of big yachts makes manouvring, espescially before the start, hazardous.

The Satanita, seeking to avoid a 12 metre which got in her way, fouled Dunraven's boat, the Valkyrie, an America's Cup challenger, and sank her, killing one steward.

The Earl of Dunraven sued for the cost of his boat (America's Cup challengers were expensive, even then!) Clarke, or rather his underwriters, claimed their right to limit liability under the Merchant Shipping Acts.

The vital question for the Court to consider was whether the race agreement superseded the right to limit liability. Clearly, there was no direct relationship between the competitors. It was held (by both the Court of Appeal and the House of Lords) that a contract did exist between the participants in the race. In the view of Lord Herschell, "... the effect of their entering the race, and understanding to be bound by [the] rules to the knowledge of each other, is sufficient, ...where those rules indicate a liability on the part of one to the other, to create a contractual obligation to discharge that liability."

Consequently, Clarke was held liable to compensate Dunraven for the full value of his loss.

(Dunraven promptly built another America's Cup Challenger...)

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?