Its ended "Messily" again !

[affinite]

I see that the relationship between Messolonghi Marina and Paleros has come to a sticky end. I feel for those of you having to put up with the nonsense at that place and Im glad Im outa there. I am suprised at the accustations levelled against Paleros though. I found them to be expensive but good in the past.

 

[chrisgee]

I see that the relationship between Messolonghi Marina and Paleros has come to a sticky end. I feel for those of you having to put up with the nonsense at that place and Im glad Im outa there. I am suprised at the accustations levelled against Paleros though. I found them to be expensive but good in the past.

Whats the full story then.

Loads of boats to be launched for the season, glad were are not one of them this time.

 

[charles_reed]

I see that the relationship between Messolonghi Marina and Paleros has come to a sticky end. I feel for those of you having to put up with the nonsense at that place and Im glad Im outa there. I am suprised at the accustations levelled against Paleros though. I found them to be expensive but good in the past.

Contrary to my informants - OK for some mechanical work, if expensive; but thoroughly unreliable and untrustworthy.
I did pass that on to Jo at the time so he was fore-armed - personally I only used Paleros the once, that was sufficient.

Aware of your subjective dislike of the management at Messolonghi, I would tend to discount your opinions on them and on other matters and would like to paint a more accurate picture.

With no readily available experience in the matter of boat-propping, the management were forced to buy in the expertise. The price for that, I guess, was a demand for a monopoly on all work in the yard. Growing it, organically, in-house was (IMHO correctly) not seen as a viable option.

It will be a problem for those boats in Messolonghi marina, who have little interest in doing their own maintenance and want a one-stop shop.
I've found very adequate chandlery, machining, electrical and mechanical services in the town and at prices about 20-25% that Paleros were expecting for the same job.

Still missing will be sailmaking and other canvas repairs, a company to carry out gardiennage, antifouling and other boat-maintenance tasks.

Personally, having knowledge of the place and people I'm pretty sure they'll rise to the occasion of the spring rush to water.

In all of this a little charity and slightly more experience would help to obtain a more balanced opinion.

Ah there goes schadenfreude...

 

[affinite]

I think youve misunderstood me Charles

Charles On what basis have you formed this opinion....

"Aware of your subjective dislike of the management at Messolonghi, I would tend to discount your opinions on them and on other matters and would like to paint a more accurate picture."

I think youve misunderstood my post, I do not have a subjective dislkie of the management at Messy. In fact I got on very well with Jo and Yanni during our time there and wish them well in moving the business on. I was simply trying to say that it is a yard with troubles - I didnt offer an opinion as the source of those troubles.

The source of the latest trouble (as outlined in the Messy newsletter) seems to be an acrimonious parting of the ways between Messy Marrina and Paleros with Paleros being booted out of the yard in a couple of weeks time. This would seem to leave some owners a little in the lurch wrt works that Paleros have been contracted to carry out. (and as I said -Im glad Im not one of them, but feel for anyone who is affected)

As for opinions on Paleros, have you had any direct dealings with them or is your opinion based on "your contacts". I will only speak for myself, but I have direct experience of working with Paleros when my boat was kept at Lefkas and had a number of jobs done with no problems.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Charles On what basis have you formed this opinion....

"Aware of your subjective dislike of the management at Messolonghi, I would tend to discount your opinions on them and on other matters and would like to paint a more accurate picture."

I think youve misunderstood my post, I do not have a subjective dislkie of the management at Messy. In fact I got on very well with Jo and Yanni during our time there and wish them well in moving the business on. I was simply trying to say that it is a yard with troubles - I didnt offer an opinion as the source of those troubles.

The source of the latest trouble (as outlined in the Messy newsletter) seems to be an acrimonious parting of the ways between Messy Marrina and Paleros with Paleros being booted out of the yard in a couple of weeks time. This would seem to leave some owners a little in the lurch wrt works that Paleros have been contracted to carry out. (and as I said -Im glad Im not one of them, but feel for anyone who is affected)

As for opinions on Paleros, have you had any direct dealings with them or is your opinion based on "your contacts". I will only speak for myself, but I have direct experience of working with Paleros when my boat was kept at Lefkas and had a number of jobs done with no problems.

I had a near experience of Paleros last year for repairs to be done inflicted by the yard trailer. Paleros produced a quote for a ridiculously low amount - being the only allowed repairer, and would not provide any description of what they would do for the money. I had been warned that Robert Mayer was a crook by a number of people - not necessarily in terms of bad workmanship, but in his business ethics. I removed the boat from Messy and thank god I did.

As regards the management, I think perhaps I feel the same as you. I liked Joe, and once you got to understand the Greekness of Yiannes, he was OK as well. However no-one should have been under any illusion that they had no experience what so ever of marina management or boat handling. So we were in effect paying for their learning curve.

I have been treated very fairly by them even though I had a major problem. Last August they were between a rock and a hard place re moving boats. Robert Mayer drove a hard bargain, but it looks like he has stuffed them in almost the same way as he stuffed the owners of Aktio Marina. Charles and I spent some time trying to warn Jo, but he was already hooked, and I think was already having doubts.

To Mr Mayer, a contract is a one sided affair - to suit him only.

To anyone thinking of going to Messolonghi, just don't assume everything will be done to the standards of south coast yard. If they are moving your boat, I would not let them do it without being there. Honest? Yes - of that I am perfectly happy.

 

[ITH]

I see that the relationship between Messolonghi Marina and Paleros has come to a sticky end. I feel for those of you having to put up with the nonsense at that place and Im glad Im outa there. I am suprised at the accustations levelled against Paleros though. I found them to be expensive but good in the past.

The notice, below, has been posted on the Cruising Association website:

Subject: Ending cooperation Paleros Yacht Service

Dear Guests of Messolonghi Marina,With this letter we like to inform you that, we have ended our cooperation with Paleros YachtService(PYS).

Reason:In August 2010, we agreed on a 50/50 partnership with PYS on the total boat service.PYS started immediately and until today they serviced many boats.PYS had the management and was totally responsible for client contacts, price offers,invoicing and administration.On a monthly base PYS would take the updated administration to the marina office forchecking.

They never did.More and more we received questions from our customer about the status of the agreedservices, done pre-payments, goods (sails, motors, life rafts etc.) taken by Paleros to theirworkshop, non received invoices and not answered emails.In January we set an ultimatum. If the total administration would not be handed over, theywould be denied access to the marina. Until today they have not done so.Because we don’t want our guest to suffer from this situation, PYS is granted access to themarina until 08 April 2011, to finish running contracts.If PYS had handed over the financial administration in January, there they could have finishedall services in time.

PYS is fully responsible for the resulting delay.Messolonghi Marina is responsible for the wellbeing of their guests and their property.We cannot and will not work with partners we cannot trust.We have started to work with other professional companies for supplying the bestservice for all boat.We want to apologise for the arisen situation and try to finish this problem to our best ability.Please contact us if you require any information on the above and/or if you need any work tobe done.

Kind regards,Messolonghi Marina ManagementJo Mennen, Yiannes Angelopoulos

 

[charles_reed]

Charles On what basis have you formed this opinion....

"Aware of your subjective dislike of the management at Messolonghi, I would tend to discount your opinions on them and on other matters and would like to paint a more accurate picture."

I think youve misunderstood my post, I do not have a subjective dislkie of the management at Messy. In fact I got on very well with Jo and Yanni during our time there and wish them well in moving the business on. I was simply trying to say that it is a yard with troubles - I didnt offer an opinion as the source of those troubles.

The source of the latest trouble (as outlined in the Messy newsletter) seems to be an acrimonious parting of the ways between Messy Marrina and Paleros with Paleros being booted out of the yard in a couple of weeks time. This would seem to leave some owners a little in the lurch wrt works that Paleros have been contracted to carry out. (and as I said -Im glad Im not one of them, but feel for anyone who is affected)

As for opinions on Paleros, have you had any direct dealings with them or is your opinion based on "your contacts". I will only speak for myself, but I have direct experience of working with Paleros when my boat was kept at Lefkas and had a number of jobs done with no problems.

Yes, I've had work done by Paleros and I subsequently took advice from a local surveyor, a competitor and a yard owner.
Allowing for their pre-judged positions, the advice was uniformly against using Paleros for anything but the simplest and most superficial work.

It would appear, in the light of those observations, that both of us had a lucky escape...

 

[affinite]

Agreed

Yes Im genuinly suprised to hear of the negative experiences re Paleros. We are no longer in the Ionian but I conceed that it does seem to be another company/individual to strike off the "safe hands" list.

 

[rivonia]

It would appear that PALEROS are getting deeper into the hole that they have dug for themselfs. Here in Lefkas, the big dutch charter company "Sunny Sail" have abandoned Paleros. This was Palers's biggest customer. When I spoke to the owners wife, she confirmed that they would not be using Paleros anymore, but refused to give me any reasons. So you can draw your own conclusions.

We used Paleros for a small S/S job. They were efficient and polite and a good job done BUT very expensive.

Peter

 

[steveallan]

It would appear that PALEROS are getting deeper into the hole that they have dug for themselfs. Here in Lefkas, the big dutch charter company "Sunny Sail" have abandoned Paleros. This was Palers's biggest customer. When I spoke to the owners wife, she confirmed that they would not be using Paleros anymore, but refused to give me any reasons. So you can draw your own conclusions.

We used Paleros for a small S/S job. They were efficient and polite and a good job done BUT very expensive.

Peter

So did you agree the price before the work?

 

[rivonia]

So did you agree the price before the work?

No I did not, as they said it would only be a quick job-(joke).

But THEY ARE EXPENSIVE. I know know, I didn't then.

Peter

 

[billcowan]

They say Lord Byron died there, maybe after seeing his boat repair!

Messalongy is a nice place, great town, nice people and very helpful if not terrifically well stocked chandler near the port, really good motor factors in the town that stocks lots of boat stuff. etc etc.

But the marina! expensive and ****. Never needing to leave my boat there, I always use the town quay, stand pipe, fuel delivered by truck, friendly fishermen, etc. The wall is a bit jaggy, but there is a concrete monstrosity permanently tied up there that I usually use as a fender.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

Now, then!

What did your Uncle Chas say about this place in Oh so many previous posts?

Chas

 

[Chris_Robb]

Now, then!

What did your Uncle Chas say about this place in Oh so many previous posts?

Chas

OK....... So I am damn glad I left last November when faced with Paleros repairing my boat! Knowing what I know now, and I stress that the management do try hard, I would never leave my boat in their hands again. Another Moody owner had his boat (when he left it in August) left on the OUTSIDE of the wave break - having been promised that as soon as space became available it would be moved to a safe spot. Was it hell....

I think people fail to respect the complexities of running a marina, the moving of some 300 boats of all shapes and sizes, the repairs services that are needed etc. These guys are just amateurs I am afraid.

They have additional problems this year in that there are lots of people wanting to launch in the next few weeks, but no where to put their boats as the planned expansion of pontoons has not taken place. This is because they have not got their Greek operators licence yet (they won't pay the bribes required), so all expansion, new blocks etc new pontoons are not happening. I presume this will also mean that the promised travel hoist will not arrive, and they will have to continue using their dangerous trailer.

This is all a crying shame as the area desperately needs another marina.

 

[ccscott49]

OK....... So I am damn glad I left last November when faced with Paleros repairing my boat! Knowing what I know now, and I stress that the management do try hard, I would never leave my boat in their hands again. Another Moody owner had his boat (when he left it in August) left on the OUTSIDE of the wave break - having been promised that as soon as space became available it would be moved to a safe spot. Was it hell....

I think people fail to respect the complexities of running a marina, the moving of some 300 boats of all shapes and sizes, the repairs services that are needed etc. These guys are just amateurs I am afraid.

They have additional problems this year in that there are lots of people wanting to launch in the next few weeks, but no where to put their boats as the planned expansion of pontoons has not taken place. This is because they have not got their Greek operators licence yet (they won't pay the bribes required), so all expansion, new blocks etc new pontoons are not happening. I presume this will also mean that the promised travel hoist will not arrive, and they will have to continue using their dangerous trailer.

This is all a crying shame as the area desperately needs another marina.

Makes Gouvia sound cheap and efficicient! My boat is safe as houses and they do what they say they will do, Albeit slowly!!

 

[grumpygit]

QUOTE=Chris_Robb;2891986]OK.......

I think people fail to respect the complexities of running a marina, the moving of some 300 boats of all shapes and sizes, the repairs services that are needed etc. These guys are just amateurs I am afraid.
__________________________________________________________________

Which part of the word Greek is not understood?
__________________________________________________________


This is because they have not got their Greek operators licence yet (they won't pay the bribes required),
_____________________________________________________________________

You must wash your mouth out with soapy water.....They've (the Greek goverment) got €129bn out of the EU, why would they want more......................?
__________________________________________________________________

This is all a crying shame as the area desperately needs another marina.[/QUOTE]
______________________________________________________________

Sorry for being so sarcastic, but you are talking about Greece. Love them or hate them this is how this country operates.

Dick Turpin would look like a complete novice....................

_____________________________________________________________

 

[suebabsthenoo]

This is Greece

...agreeeeeeeeed ..Turkey..completely different ball game and only a minute or 2 away.

 

[rigman]

OK....... So I am damn glad I left last November when faced with Paleros repairing my boat! Knowing what I know now, and I stress that the management do try hard, I would never leave my boat in their hands again. Another Moody owner had his boat (when he left it in August) left on the OUTSIDE of the wave break - having been promised that as soon as space became available it would be moved to a safe spot. Was it hell....

I think people fail to respect the complexities of running a marina, the moving of some 300 boats of all shapes and sizes, the repairs services that are needed etc. These guys are just amateurs I am afraid.

They have additional problems this year in that there are lots of people wanting to launch in the next few weeks, but no where to put their boats as the planned expansion of pontoons has not taken place. This is because they have not got their Greek operators licence yet (they won't pay the bribes required), so all expansion, new blocks etc new pontoons are not happening. I presume this will also mean that the promised travel hoist will not arrive, and they will have to continue using their dangerous trailer.

This is all a crying shame as the area desperately needs another marina.

He tried it on with me too also. Tried to put me on the breakwater. Stuck to my guns and he gave me a good berth near the office (where I still am). I see a huge problem when crane in commences. Fortuneately there is plenty room at anchor. Its a shame this has all happened, but I am out of here for next winter. Too much hassle. Probably go to Levkas or Gouvia despite the costs. You get what you pay for.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hi Graham - alias Grumpy old Git...

I am afraid everything you say is rather true. Just keep your eyes open, and look a gift horse in the mouth - Greeks bearing gifts etc etc. But I still like it out there, and there are some genuinely good and organised ones - as in Aktio Marina.

 

[Chris_Robb]

He tried it on with me too also. Tried to put me on the breakwater. Stuck to my guns and he gave me a good berth near the office (where I still am). I see a huge problem when crane in commences. Fortuneately there is plenty room at anchor. Its a shame this has all happened, but I am out of here for next winter. Too much hassle. Probably go to Levkas or Gouvia despite the costs. You get what you pay for.

He did that to us also, for last August, but I asked him what the reduced rate was for the wave break, - none -. I had booked 4 months earlier so insisted and got a place. There are too many accidents waiting to happen there, and it looks like development is ceasing for the moment - although Yiannes has always said they can't build at the same time as moving boats.....

Is there any sign of the travel hoist he promised yet?