It's a shocker!

[Montemar]

When cleaning the boat whilst out of the water but plugged into the mains I got a tingle when touching the metalwork while standing on the ground in wet shoes etc. after the big hull clean.
It wasn't serious but does it mean I have some kind of earthing problem or is this normal?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

When cleaning the boat whilst out of the water but plugged into the mains I got a tingle when touching the metalwork while standing on the ground in wet shoes etc. after the big hull clean.
It wasn't serious but does it mean I have some kind of earthing problem or is this normal?

"Is this normal?"

Really?? Of course it's not normal. You can probably prove your own theory by unplugging the boat and trying to electrocute yourself again. Let us know how you get on, if you survive.

 

[Seastoke]

first would you wash the toaster in the sink when plugged in ,NO so dont do it but like many peeps who use hook up if stuff works they think its fine but the earth wire could be corroded or come loose ,how many people have there earth return path tested ,which is called ZS or earth loop impedance ,without a good earth the rcd wont work so you might be a lucky boy ,marinas are tested up to the blue sockets after that it is up to the owner ,the lead you use should be tested at least annually ie PAT tested the best is to get a sparky to test for ZS and RCD TEST ,the point if there is an electrical fire on the boat ,could you prove to the insurance you had it checked or ,HOPE they will pay out .

 

[Portofino]

This is interesting and worth finding out .
My boat has a metal plate through the hull between the engines about the size of a I pad , under the hull
We do not antifoul it ,the outside bit .
Inside it's got wires attached to lugs .
This is not to be confused with the anode bonding to hull anodes -- this is somthing different .

When in the water it's wet , submerged all the time
When on shore it's mostly dry except when jetting off and may be a hull wash .
This is done 1st after lift out ,then later we plug the shore power in ,to get 220 v to the polishers and keep the bats / fridge on + work the loos etc ( holding tank on )

What is this pad , whats it do normally - and how can it work in the yard dry ?

Sorry I,am a numpty when it to comes boat 220 /240 uk Voltage .

 

[QBhoy]

Hi
I would like to think the rcd or your boat ring main protection would trip if it was shorting to earth.
Also, what metal work was it, where was it on the boat? Would it be likely to carry a current if your circuit was shorting ?

 

[Seastoke]

This is interesting and worth finding out .
My boat has a metal plate through the hull between the engines about the size of a I pad , under the hull
We do not antifoul it ,the outside bit .
Inside it's got wires attached to lugs .
This is not to be confused with the anode bonding to hull anodes -- this is somthing different .

When in the water it's wet , submerged all the time
When on shore it's mostly dry except when jetting off and may be a hull wash .
This is done 1st after lift out ,then later we plug the shore power in ,to get 220 v to the polishers and keep the bats / fridge on + work the loos etc ( holding tank on )

What is this pad , whats it do normally - and how can it work in the yard dry ?

Sorry I,am a numpty when it to comes boat 220 /240 uk Voltage .

i dont know what it does but does not provide an earth for your hook up when in the water the earth comes down the wire at the supply end it is connected to terra firma

 

[Portofino]

Hi
I would like to think the rcd or your boat ring main protection would trip if it was shorting to earth.
Also, what metal work was it, where was it on the boat? Would it be likely to carry a current if your circuit was shorting ?

Yeh - the main breaker for 220 v in the boat does trip when we overload the 32 A at the dock .
Eg tube heaters x 3 , hob on and then kettle is switched on
We just have to remember to unplug the oil heaters --it's rare .

Dock side @ mooring trips if the shore power socket gets accidentally wet --

But this is yard shorepower 32 A socket and a dry hull .
Just to be clear never had a trip or nip in the yard ---- just want to learn more

It's the op who,s had a "tingle " with a wet boat on yard shore power

 

[Seastoke]

When cleaning the boat whilst out of the water but plugged into the mains I got a tingle when touching the metalwork while standing on the ground in wet shoes etc. after the big hull clean.
It wasn't serious but does it mean I have some kind of earthing problem or is this normal?

you may well have a bad earth to your boat if there was a small earth leakage all earth connections should be at zero potential ,to make you understand ,that is why you have all your metal work connected in your house

 

[superheat6k]

This is interesting and worth finding out .
My boat has a metal plate through the hull between the engines about the size of a I pad , under the hull
We do not antifoul it ,the outside bit .
Inside it's got wires attached to lugs .
This is not to be confused with the anode bonding to hull anodes -- this is somthing different .

When in the water it's wet , submerged all the time
When on shore it's mostly dry except when jetting off and may be a hull wash .
This is done 1st after lift out ,then later we plug the shore power in ,to get 220 v to the polishers and keep the bats / fridge on + work the loos etc ( holding tank on )

What is this pad , whats it do normally - and how can it work in the yard dry ?

Sorry I,am a numpty when it to comes boat 220 /240 uk Voltage .

This sounds like a ground plane plate to improve radio performance, or possibly a lightning earthing plate.

As for the OP having a tingle - absolutely not ever ever ever is this normal.

As suggested something is leaking live or neutral (more likely) to the on board bonding circuit and this is not being sufficiently grounded / earthed by the earth connection.

Neutral is normally bonded to earth at the source point of the supply, e.g the shoreside HV transformer. This would normally be the transformer star point assuming this is a conventional 3 phase distribution feed, from which individual single phase outlets are fed.

An imbalance on the phase users can cause excess current flows in the neutral, and anyway any current drawn in the specific phase leg will have to return along the neutral. If the neutral point is some distance from the earth link point then the voltage build up due to the neutral current flow can become quite high, i.e. enough for a tingle.

Then if something aboard has a neutral to earth link (nothing should when connected to shore power) then if the shore earth is poor or again is a long distance away, then the boat's bonding circuit could start to show a significant voltage. A tingle will be felt > 20 - 30 volts.

If you are not a sparky then pay for one to investigate this for you. If you have an AC leak to your bonding circuit it could play havoc with your underwater fittings let alone fizz your zincs away in no time.

It could also be lethal. If for instance another numpty had cross wired the supply lead live and neutral, the boats metal work could reach full mains voltage. This would be more than a tingle.

There will be earth - neutral links at any onboard power source, e.g. inverter charger, or generator. If shore power is on then the inverter and / or generator must be disconnected, by a suitable isolating switch, ideally in the form On Source - Off - On Shore.

This requires that an Inverter / Charger must have separated input and output terminals for operation in charger mode. I am not familiar enough to know how makers resolve this one.

 

[Portofino]

i dont know what it does but does not provide an earth for your hook up when in the water the earth comes down the wire at the supply end it is connected to terra firma

Thx
What about the Geny making 220 v afloat and powering up all the same sockets ,how's that earthed ?
Maybe that plate is to do with that ?
Sorry as said numpty with boat 220 v

 

[superheat6k]

Thx
What about the Geny making 220 v afloat and powering up all the same sockets ,how's that earthed ?
Maybe that plate is to do with that ?
Sorry as said numpty with boat 220 v

The neutral to earth link on the generator MUST be on the generator side of the isolation switch, and the isolation must be two pole, e.g. Live and Neutral.

 

[Momac]

When cleaning the boat whilst out of the water but plugged into the mains I got a tingle when touching the metalwork while standing on the ground in wet shoes etc. after the big hull clean.
It wasn't serious but does it mean I have some kind of earthing problem or is this normal?

Try a different shore power cable?

 

[Seastoke]

Try a different shore power cable?

bad advice , have it tested he could have another fault and he could have a belt again which could be fatal

 

[Portofino]

Thx -Superheat 6K and Seastroke -tricky subject boat AC -----and potentially lethal .

 

[Seastoke]

the earthing on marinas is different on pontoons than that of on shore pontoons are as general are tt systems and yard tncs

 

[NoIllusion]

And to think............this person could be helming a boat near you..........SOON!!

 

[superheat6k]

I personally do not think any thread about 240v electrical safety is one to commence a banter within.

Likely a majority of boating people do not understand electrical theory, especially that concerning 240v AC systems, which is why professionals exist to make electrical systems safe for day to day users.

My consistent advice for boaters dealing with their 240v electrical systems is if they are not sure employ a professional who is.

12v DC systems are less likely to cause harm to a fiddler, but 240v will definitely kill if not respected. Electricity is perfectly safe until you forget it is dangerous. Both the questions that have been asked on this thread have been genuine and have alerted potentially dangerous situations Hopefully both will take the appropriate action to employ someone to resolve these issues for them.

I myself am setting up an electrical training course for Boaters, but this will only be covering the safe basics of AC systems on boats with a large and loud caveat that non electrically trained and experienced people must not mess around with 240v systems.

 

[Momac]

bad advice , have it tested he could have another fault and he could have a belt again which could be fatal

You are quite correct of course.
A bit odd it didn't trip the breaker .

Can you get a static build up and resulting shock off a boat that is ashore ?

 

[bigwow]

Several years ago my boat was in the yard, not my present marina, I plugged into the mains, grabbed the pushpit to get on and got a strong "tingle". Pushpit had no connection to metal just bolted through fibreglass, explain that for me Roy. I'm told the yard electrics were not all it should have been. Boat has since been rewired, just in case.

 

[Seastoke]

anything is possible but i would say with him standing on the floor he was a better return path than through the cable ,i feel one day some one will die on a pontoon or boat,through a faulty lead and the marina manager could be at fault as they tend not to any form of leads being tested in place ,do ever see leads with taped up cuts etc . IMHO ITS THE SAME OLD ON RIVERS BOATS ARE TESTED ON THE WHO GIVES A FECK