It won't exist- but what is nearest?

snowleopard said:
Let me put it another way - You would probably be better off with the fin keel version in Scottish waters.
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Quandary said:
Indeed, why does it take someone from Cornwall to make such an obvious point.
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The OP specified bilge or lifting keel - shall we do him the courtesy of assuming that he may have had good reason for that stipulation?

Perhaps he has access to a private but drying mooring? Perhaps he likes visiting the Solway? Perhaps he has undercover winter storage available with rather restricted height? There could be all sorts of reasons.
 
Its a forum for **** sake. Perhaps the OP might be right about the benefits, but he will not come to any harm reading diverse opinions, for instance he also wanted inbuilt buoyancy and you chose to ignore that when saying your favourite 'ticks all the boxes'.
I think he is old enough to make up his own mind so no harm in offering wise guidance.
 
In case you missed it, please note my reply re. Anderson 22 keels, I don't want a hysterical unthinking post to put out a bad reputation on a boat I'd trust my, and more important my friends, lives with, and has been rather well proven in transatlantic races etc;

Just because I advised maintenance the boat's keel is being called fragile !

I can't imagine a tougher '22, one owner has an Anderson with a watertight forward bulkhead, set up for the 'Jester' but couldn't get the time off work.
 
Trapper TS 240

Deep and very heavy vertical Lift bulb keel with manual and electric hydraulics
24 foot but will perform as well as many larger boats especially to windward.
Outboard in well
Roller Reefing
Fractional rig easy to depower.
All controls to cockpit
Dries out upright on Bulb and stern if you wish.
No hull ballast so not tender like modern offerings.
Proper cooker and sink with tap and water storage.
Proper Sea toilet.
Space for 4 (very friendly) or 2 plus loads of gear.
Good size chain locker with open deckspace for windlass

Wont sell my Trapper Ts240 as I cant find anything better to meet my needs which are very similar to Ops

Very sought after as not many built.
Downside as with all lifters need to make sure keel assembly and lift mechanism is tip top.

I have been out in some pretty rough stuff that modern hull ballasted (jennies , bennies) and and lightweight centreboarders would have found too much.

If scotish base there was one up for sale in the Far north google Ts 240 Sale and well within budget.
 
Trapper TS 240

Did a couple of seasons of inland winter racing on one of these about 20 or so years ago. Its the sort of boat I would go for in that size, but I suspect that it may not 'tick enough of the OPs boxes'. Quite different from the Trapper 300 I had owned around the same time.
My impressions from way back then- fast, beamy, light and agile, plenty of sail area, more of a racer from the end of the 1/4 ton era than a cruiser. Its also looks the business. The deck gear was not over specified. The one I sailed on was always wet inside, to the extent it got osmosis in the bilges, but it had a fairly carefree (careless) owner. I think the hull may have been sandwich? It was taken from the sea to the Lough for the winter series each year and was easy to trail launch and recover even in non tidal water.
A good boat but perhaps not for the OP?

If I was buying another boat I would look for something I really fancied myself, then enquire here to find out what was wrong with it, as an owner I have always been able to persuade myself as soon as I bought that each boat was the best I could possibly own even though as time passed I could also list its shortcomings, and every boat has quite a few.
 
Seajet said:
Duette / Sonata; rather lightly built.

Leisure 23; are you serious ?! Almost as fast as Bognor pier, and I'm only into passage making, had enough of racing when I was in dinghies...

I'd strongly suggest Anderson 22 ( I would wouldn't I, have had mine since 1977, and I run the owners association, www.anderson22class.co.uk ).

- 2 have crossed the Atlantic, I've been through 55 knot squalls and done 24 Channel crossings in mine, never found anything to remotely equal her.

My boat is about to come out of the water, but you're welcome for a sail next season; and my boat is definitely not for sale !

PBO and Sailing Today have both done very keen reviews, feel free to PM me...
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Hm, no sense of bias there.
The OP did not request a racing boat, he asked for bilge or lifting keel. The 23SL is a bilge. Also, it has considerably more accomodation than an A22, so is worthy of a look.
Cant remember a keel falling off, but I could be mistaken.
 
Quandary said:
On your chart you will find dozens of others all over the west coast, including Loch Sunart, most with at least a 2m. tidal range, they date back to when puffers carried goods to coastal villages and fishing was a thriving business.
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Unfortunately many of these are now in a ruinous condition. The one nearest to my mooring (at Laudale 56 40.6N, 5 39.6W) is a typical example. It has a masonry "root" with a ruined building on it and at one time had a timber deck which projected into the loch, but the timber has rotted away or been destroyed by fire, leaving only the stumps of the piles under the water to discourage anyone who might think of lying alongside the masonry. There are similar examples at Lochailort and Glencoe.
 
Thanks, chaps, the Horizon 23 seems to be the one. Built-in buoyancy isn't vital, anyway.
The bilge keels allow you to park on a lot of very pretty beaches up here, and I'd rather have them for scrubbing down and hauling out. I am most unlikely to race anyway.
I've got to fettle and flog the Caprice first, too, which has rather too many memories of my late son to make that very easy,
And as he was an Archaeologist, laid off with his career up the spout, which was why he took his own life, the occasional footnote funny can misfire sometimes, so sorry, Armchairsailor, but you were not to know.
 
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Seajet said:
Duette / Sonata; rather lightly built.

Leisure 23; are you serious ?! Almost as fast as Bognor pier, and I'm only into passage making, had enough of racing when I was in dinghies...

I'd strongly suggest Anderson 22 ( I would wouldn't I, have had mine since 1977, and I run the owners association, www.anderson22class.co.uk ).

- 2 have crossed the Atlantic, I've been through 55 knot squalls and done 24 Channel crossings in mine, never found anything to remotely equal her.

My boat is about to come out of the water, but you're welcome for a sail next season; and my boat is definitely not for sale !

PBO and Sailing Today have both done very keen reviews, feel free to PM me...
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Bloody hell Seajet, His names not Noah and he dident post looking for an ark!:rolleyes:
My thoughts are still with you Phil, and if there is anything, you know where to get me.
Good luck in your boat search, and again if there is any way I can help just let me know.

Its almost exactly a year since we had that pint in the Mishnish, how time can change things.
Regards,Eamonn.
C_W
 
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Quandary said:
Its a forum for **** sake. Perhaps the OP might be right about the benefits, but he will not come to any harm reading diverse opinions, for instance he also wanted inbuilt buoyancy and you chose to ignore that when saying your favourite 'ticks all the boxes'.
I think he is old enough to make up his own mind so no harm in offering wise guidance.
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I think it would have been rather politer to ask "Why are you set on bilge or lifting keel boats?" rather than plough straight in with "You don't want to do it like that, you want to do it like this."

And yes, I missed the inbuilt buoyancy bit. Do any boats of that size have it?
 
Freedom yachts are reputed to be very easy to sail - and they built smaller versions as well as the iconic 40' designed by (I think) Garry Hoyt.

There was a 25', and a 21' with rather basic accommodation - I could only find one for sail on Yachtworld : http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/Freedom-Yachts-21-2099303/River-Dart/United-Kingdom

Otherwise I would agree that the Hunter 23 mentioned above seems to be the closest to what the OP probably wants. I havent sailed on one, but have sailed on a few Sonatas, one of which had a lifting centreboard, and she sailed beautifully.
 
Seajet said:
Duette / Sonata; rather lightly built.
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In the words of Winston Churchill, the answer is in the plural and they bounce.

I owned a flotilla of Sonatas and they were sailed by charterers for many years, sustaining only a few nicks in the stem from ramming jetties, rocks and other immovable objects. They have faults but lack of strength isn't one of them.

Please please everyone let's get away from the testosterone fuelled 'my boat is perfect and can't be criticised'. It's only a boat, not your virility being called into question.
 
snowleapard,

Agreed, those 'virility challenged' usually have phallic shaped motorboats !

I've looked at various David Thomas era Hunters, and was underwhelmed by the build quality & fittings; I've not found use by flottillas a guide to good boats, quite the opposite.

The Anderson 22 isn't perfect, just the best design so far - I did get together with the ex-M.D. of Andersons, we seriously investigated building new boats, but as the other chap is comfortably retired ( a very nice guy, as passionate about the boat as I am ) the project became too much for us.

He now has run out of space, so if a viable home can be found for the production moulds, and a part complete boat - as I say, the last chance to fit out a kit Anderson, for a remarkably low initial outlay.

www.anderson22class.co.uk

Tobermoreyphil, each to their own but I'd strongly suggest having a look at a good Anderson 22 ( they vary a lot due to owners ).
 
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I fully understand the bilge keel wish in Scottish waters or anywhere, it allows you to anchor inside everybody else and close to the shore, you can then walk ashore too if anchoring near HW and going ahsore near LW.
I like the Kingfisher 20+ with junk rig, no headsail, all controls in cockpit, you would probably have to fit an electric winch and battery forward but theres plenty of room for it. Not great upwind but who wants to cruise upwind. Not sure about the built in buoyancy 'though. My father sailed around Ireland in one by himself in his 70's.
 
Ubergeekian said:
I think it would have been rather politer to ask "Why are you set on bilge or lifting keel boats?" rather than plough straight in with "You don't want to do it like that, you want to do it like this."

And yes, I missed the inbuilt buoyancy bit. Do any boats of that size have it?
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I don't recall being rude, or even dictatorial, and if my post was perceived by Phil as such, I apologize. I do, however, like to be direct and open when expressing myself, if I think I have nothing useful to contribute I just stay quiet, I have never seen any merit in pussyfooting around any issue in a debate with anyone who I regard as capable of understanding the point. Perhaps I misunderstand the purpose of the forum.
I know the 23' boat (complete with fin keel) that I would choose if I lived where Phil does but since it is only relevant to me and my criteria I see no point in naming it. But he is right to look for something that will get him back home round Ardnamurchan comfortably in the strong winds and big seas you often get there.
 
Seajet said:
I've looked at various David Thomas era Hunters, and was underwhelmed by the build quality & fittings; I've not found use by flottillas a guide to good boats, quite the opposite.
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How many of these were bought as kits and completed by thier owners' rather than being fitted out at the factory? The quality of finish on kit boats has in my experiance been variable with the odd very poor example.
 
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