It won't exist- but what is nearest?

[32511]

[32511]

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At 70, I am looking for a cruiser, 23 ft. max, for single handing, with the following features:
All lines back to cockpit
self tacking roller reefing jib
Mainsail reefing from cockpit
outboard in well- easier to free fouled prop
bilge or lifting keel
strong sea boat, capable of surviving the odd knockdowns
built-in buoyancy
anchor release and haul from cockpit
low maintenance
£12 000 max.
Suggestions, please, chaps!
 
Spot on. It is based on the original Sonata (of which there are still quite a few around). Note that the aft end of the hull was designed specifically to prevent it planing but I guess that's no disadvantage for your needs. You will probably want the fin version.

They are beamy boats so plenty of form stability but a good ballast ratio too. I have sailed Sonatas in F6 without too much worry. 4-5 HP pushes them along quite nicely.
 
Got to be either the Hunter Duette or Hunter Horizon 23. Both are Sonata developments. The Duette is a Sonata with twin keels, a slightly smaller rig, and a better-furnished & more comfortable interior. The Horizon 23 carried the transformation a stage further with a new deck & cabin moulding giving incredible interior space and comfort for a 23 footer. The Horizon 23 has the ccs (cockpit control system) rig with self-tacking jib and all sail controls led back to cockpit. 5-6 hp outboard in a well. Excellent boats, owned a Horizon 23 for 5 years, cruised her all over Irish Sea.
 
No offence, but-

Your list of requirements reads as those of an extremely pessimistic sailor. Why not lighten up a bit and forget about built in buoyancy etc and go for something that you really like the look of and will enjoy sailing, there is a lot of pleasure in good performance. Your budget is big enough to get you something really nice at the small size you have chosen. I am also baffled while anyone on the West Coast of Scotland would opt for the encumbrance of bilge keels, very few shallow or drying harbours here, and plenty of water on the slip at Tobermory for recovering a fin keeler. At 23' loa the difference in draught is only inches anyway.
I was taking the lines for a Moody of similar size to my own boat trying to berth in a not too tight gap last Friday and was baffled by his lack of confidence in his manoeuvreabilty, throwing lines from 20' out and hauling her in sideways, he explained that with bilge keels the option of spinning the boat around the keel was not available.
 
tobermoryphil said:
At 70, I am looking for a cruiser, 23 ft. max, for single handing, with the following features:
All lines back to cockpit
self tacking roller reefing jib
Mainsail reefing from cockpit
outboard in well- easier to free fouled prop
bilge or lifting keel
strong sea boat, capable of surviving the odd knockdowns
built-in buoyancy
anchor release and haul from cockpit
low maintenance
£12 000 max.
Suggestions, please, chaps!
Click to expand...

The buoyancy flagged up Etap 22i in my head. It fits the engine and keel requirements too methinks.
I don't know if everyone would consider it a good sea boat, maybe a bit light but they do get about.
Reefing/self tacking/remote anchor release could all be rigged as addons to an existing little ship.
 
With that kind of budget you need not be restricted to an outboard, although the overall length limits the number of boats with an inboard. An effective rope cutter deals with the fouled prop bit and you have all the advantages of an inboard.

Similarly built in bouyancy seems to be an unecessary restriction. Very few boats of this size have it - largely because it is unecessary. Foundering is not an issue on a ballasted keel boat, so why lose the space and have the added complexity of something that is not needed? If it stays as an essential on your list you have a realistic choice of only one boat, the Etap. Quite a good choice anyway, and not just because of the construction - it ticks most of your other boxes as well.
 
Duette / Sonata; rather lightly built.

Leisure 23; are you serious ?! Almost as fast as Bognor pier, and I'm only into passage making, had enough of racing when I was in dinghies...

I'd strongly suggest Anderson 22 ( I would wouldn't I, have had mine since 1977, and I run the owners association, www.anderson22class.co.uk ).

- 2 have crossed the Atlantic, I've been through 55 knot squalls and done 24 Channel crossings in mine, never found anything to remotely equal her.

My boat is about to come out of the water, but you're welcome for a sail next season; and my boat is definitely not for sale !

PBO and Sailing Today have both done very keen reviews, feel free to PM me...
 
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So who 'reliably informed' you then ?!

As for 'many have had their keels replaced', thats 4 out of 180, but after over 30 years I expect more to follow; at least we have a ready supply of keels, made new now, from the original supplier.

The keels are anything but fragile, you're welcome to come and see mine when out of the water in a couple of weeks, or see the website,

www.anderson22class.co.uk

- on the 'for sale' and 'buyers guide' sections there are shots of the keel.

The keel plate only suffers as much corrosion problems as any other boat, it's just that I have drawn it to peoples' attention for safety's sake.

There are a lot of other lift keel boats which carry on in blissful ignorance, and for that matter boats of all sizes with fixed keels hanging on needle-thin bolts !
 
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snowleopard said:
Let me put it another way - You would probably be better off with the fin keel version in Scottish waters.
Click to expand...

Indeed, why does it take someone from Cornwall to make such an obvious point.
The only place where the others might offer an advantage is if you lived by the sands of Morar or intended to spend a lot of time in there.
 
snowleopard said:
Let me put it another way - You would probably be better off with the fin keel version in Scottish waters.
Click to expand...

I think you mean Scottish west coast waters, but I am not sure I would agree with you even then.

I have a bilge-keeler on Loch Sunart, really in the interests of self-sufficiency. If I foul the prop or need to inspect the underside for any reason, I have a sheltered area of drying firm sand close to my swinging mooring. The nearest lift-out facility is about 40 miles away.
 
Seajet said:
So who 'reliably informed' you then ?!
Click to expand...

Well actually you did, post 46 on here:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246793&page=5

Ok you have changed your mind now, it was "quite a few" now it's 4 out of 180 which doesn't sound so bad for an old boat.

They look quite nice too despite the lack of a walk round.

I must admit I prefer the lifting mechanism on my Copland Harrier, I can get at the winch and wire to service it. The keel is bl00dy heavy though I'm sure to keep my fingers out of the way as it's on it's way down.

I could only grease the First 18 screw mechanism but that's all I did to it for the 4 years I had it.
 
Re. Anderson 22 keels, I try to emphasize that they should be checked; and I certainly haven't changed my mind.

One can easily access the keel wire and winch, and like everything on the boat including hatch mouldings etc, replacement kit is ( surprisingly after 30 odd years ) available.

As I have tried to point out, keel maintenance applies to all lift keel boats, common sense one would have hoped...

I suppose this is the payback for trying to be safety conscious and warn people - sheesh !!!
 
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The original spec is very close to what I have been looking for.Although here it is mostly deep water(Galician rias) and the Atlantic is quite deep we have a lot of weed/Barnacle growth in these waters .I have been looking for a bilge keeler as it can be easily drid out on a slip or beach.An outboard at these small sizes saves alot of internal space and sodding about with engines and attendant stuff,especially if its an older boat with the original engine.
 
alan_d said:
I think you mean Scottish west coast waters, but I am not sure I would agree with you even then.

I have a bilge-keeler on Loch Sunart, really in the interests of self-sufficiency. If I foul the prop or need to inspect the underside for any reason, I have a sheltered area of drying firm sand close to my swinging mooring. The nearest lift-out facility is about 40 miles away.
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I sail a fin keel yacht, draught 1.8m. in an emergency I can and have dried it out against a pier wall within 200 m. of my front door. There is a similar stone pier in Tobermory, frequently used for the same purpose. On your chart you will find dozens of others all over the west coast, including Loch Sunart, most with at least a 2m. tidal range, they date back to when puffers carried goods to coastal villages and fishing was a thriving business. So no need to sacrifice performance or manouverability. The only place I can think of with perhaps insufficent tidal range is around Gigha or Craighouse.
However, I accept your point about most sailors forgetting that Scotland has an East Coast which has some similar features to Englands.
 
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