Issues with survey

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eddystone

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About 6 weeks ago I bought a yacht (27 years old, well known make) after a survey by a well respected surveyor, with good knowledge of the brand. As I get to know the boat better, more things come to light.

Over the last few days I have found the following:

1. gap between main bulkhead on port side and deckhead - about 0.6/0.7cm at the top of the door post, yet the survey said bulkheads were properly attached to hull and in good order (could this have happened since through movement on cradle?)

2. Impassable kink in (non-reinforced) hose from bilge pump to skin fitting - survey said bilge pump in good working order.

3. Similar kink in hose between two flexible water tanks and seized gate valve - survey said tanks and fresh water system were in good working order.

Should I feel aggrieved about this and if so what can I do? Or is this normal for an older boat and you can't expect surveyor to pick up everything?
 
I think it depends if you had to take anything apart to finally discover the offending items. Surveyors won't unscrew thinks to look behind.
Does the survey mention anything about unable to get clear access to xyz?
 
eddystone said:
About 6 weeks ago I bought a yacht (27 years old, well known make) after a survey by a well respected surveyor, with good knowledge of the brand. As I get to know the boat better, more things come to light.

Over the last few days I have found the following:

1. gap between main bulkhead on port side and deckhead - about 0.6/0.7cm at the top of the door post, yet the survey said bulkheads were properly attached to hull and in good order (could this have happened since through movement on cradle?)

2. Impassable kink in (non-reinforced) hose from bilge pump to skin fitting - survey said bilge pump in good working order.

3. Similar kink in hose between two flexible water tanks and seized gate valve - survey said tanks and fresh water system were in good working order.

Should I feel aggrieved about this and if so what can I do? Or is this normal for an older boat and you can't expect surveyor to pick up everything?
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Possible he checked the pump by sound, and didnt fill the bilge with water to test the hoses.I guess he is right in that the pump is working. Either way, a few quid to resolve surely?
I dont know if the top of the door post is actually structural- quite possibly not, but you could ask him.
Again, I could imagine he checked the taps work etc how is he going to check the water flow between the two water tanks?
Good news is nothing seems terrible, does it? You could ask him to contribute to some of it, but within the limitations of what he can check, while these might be minor inconveniences, I am not sure he can check every single part of every system on a 27 year old boat.
 
gjgm said:
Possible he checked the pump by sound, and didnt fill the bilge with water to test the hoses.I guess he is right in that the pump is working. Either way, a few quid to resolve surely?
I dont know if the top of the door post is actually structural- quite possibly not, but you could ask him.
Again, I could imagine he checked the taps work etc how is he going to check the water flow between the two water tanks?
Good news is nothing seems terrible, does it? You could ask him to contribute to some of it, but within the limitations of what he can check, while these might be minor inconveniences, I am not sure he can check every single part of every system on a 27 year old boat.
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Yes I appreciate there is a limit to what you can check and replacing plumbing is something you should expect anyway on a boat of that age. It was the bulkhead that worried me a bit - I thought that was the sort of thing that happened when rigging over-tightened when a boat raced a lot. I will ask his opinion, as you suggest.
 
eddystone said:
Yes I appreciate there is a limit to what you can check and replacing plumbing is something you should expect anyway on a boat of that age. It was the bulkhead that worried me a bit - I thought that was the sort of thing that happened when rigging over-tightened when a boat raced a lot. I will ask his opinion, as you suggest.
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On the pipes and valve, just sort them out yourself. Not a big deal, and good experience in getting to know your boat.

On the door post and bulkhead - I would want to find the definitive answer independently of the surveyor before approaching him. With all due respect to the surveyor, he has done his job and received his money. He might be incredibly honourable, or he might have a vested interest in telling you something to make you go away. The latter is more likely in a 2nd hand car dealer, but not impossible with a surveyor.

Armed with the definitive answer, you can gauge his response when you approach him.

I don't know how you get the definitive answer, but here is as good a place as any to start.
 
We had our boat surveyed prior to purchase as a precaution against any major problem being present. Nothing found to that degree but I was a little surprised to find on completion the purchase and receiving all the varioous documentation that the same surveyor had surveyed the boat two years before - report was very similar! I would have thought that he could at least have mentioned it and (possibly?) offered a discount (OK maybe not!).

I would be very hesitant about getting another survey done as once anyone competent has owned a boat for a couple of years would be able to carry out their own survey.
 
Surveyors all have insurance in case they are sued for what is effectively incompetence. A small claims court would do it after you have found out what the cause of the bulkhead gap is. You would get your fee back and the cost of the jobs to be done.
 
KellysEye said:
Surveyors all have insurance in case they are sued for what is effectively incompetence. A small claims court would do it after you have found out what the cause of the bulkhead gap is. You would get your fee back and the cost of the jobs to be done.
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I think,only, that SCC are getting alot tougher... I am not sure there is a win case here.. a small gap at the top part of a door frame doesnt sound like a major structural bulkhead failure to me, as a layman. Can you prove that denegrates the integrity of the boat ?
 
gjgm said:
I think,only, that SCC are getting alot tougher... I am not sure there is a win case here.. a small gap at the top part of a door frame doesnt sound like a major structural bulkhead failure to me, as a layman. Can you prove that denegrates the integrity of the boat ?
Click to expand...

The situation as described by the OP is nowhere near a court case of any kind. Court cases are for resolving disputes where there is a dispute and the plaintiff has tried to resolve it by other means.

So far there is no dispute. The OP is concerned that the written report might be at odds with what he has observed. The first thing to do is to draw it to the attention of the surveyor and ask for his comments. If he is not satisfied with the answer then he should seek advice from another source of expertise before he decides on a course of action.

There could of course be a perfectly valid explanation for the discrepancy or the surveyor could say "sorry guv - should have noticed that" and propose a remedy. However, at this point it is all guess work.

For the OP. Think I am right in saying you have bought a Sadler. In which case there is little that is not known about them and people such as Mike Lucas or Martin Sadler (who built the boat) are still in business offering advice and services to owners.
 
That the top of the bulkhead is to some extent "floating" and boats will move in a cradle, the deck will flex from people moving about etc. When back in the water the bulkhead will probably move upwards.Comment about effect of rig tension.
 
They did say it was properly attached to the hull, no mention of being attached to the deck...

Bulkheads aren't often attached (as in with more than sealant) to the deck. Yes some manufactures do glass in bulkheads as standard, many don't.

If the boat has been sitting there a while you might be better off replacing the piping, a few quid on pipes does wonders for the water quality and peace of mind....especially if they exit below water level.

When the survey was done on (soon to be) our boat I was there and went through any issues as they were found, and talked through the options to get his advice on his recommendations.
 
eddystone said:
That the top of the bulkhead is to some extent "floating" and boats will move in a cradle, the deck will flex from people moving about etc. When back in the water the bulkhead will probably move upwards.Comment about effect of rig tension.
Click to expand...

Aha! I thought you were off the cradle and back in the water. When my Moody 44 was on a cradle, some of the doors were a little tight, suggesting that the whole thing flexed slightly. No issues when in the water.
 
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