is your harness any use?

[snowleopard]

the guy who died on the ARC was wearing a harness but it didn't stop him going over the side from where he couldn't be recovered.

if your harness tether is say 5ft long and attached to a jackstay which runs along the side deck 6 ins. from the gunwale, what's to stop you going over? add that to guard wires 2 ft high, i.e. just about the level of the back of your knees and it starts to look like not much protection at all.

is our trust in harnesses misplaced?

i now run my jackstay along the cabin top and round the base of the mast which keeps me further from the edge (i have 23 ft beam which helps a bit) but i could still slip under the wires. thinking now of going for all-round netting before our next long passage.



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[Dave99]

If you always walk down the windward side, you can never fall out any way if your clipped to a jackstay. You just end up on the coach roof, provided that there's some wind and the boats not flat.

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[pandroid]

....but it <font color=red> did </font color=red> stop him getting away from the boat. Personally, I'd rather stay attached to the boat. It at least raises the chance that I <font color=red> might </font color=red>be recovered. A lifejacket and no boat doesnt fill me with much glee.....

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[snowleopard]

agree you're less likely to go over the weather side (unless there's a roll) but how about kneeling on the foredeck for a sail change and slipping under the guardrails?

i'm really questioning the assumption 'i won't go overboard because i wear a harness'

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[Twister_Ken]

>thinking now of going for all-round netting before our next long passage<

Here's hoping you don't go over the side on a short passage, then!

BTW, don't forget if you go over the top of 2 ft high guard rails, you've effectively got a 4 ft shorter tether. Yeah, I know the jackstay will stretch upwards. Let's call it 3 feet then.

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[bigmart]

I think you would be more correct if you worked on the principal of (I won't go overboard because I'm scared to death & I will punch holes in the deck with my fingers rather than get my big toe wet). IMHO that is more likely to save you but wear a harness as a back up. Just in case the deck can't take the punishment.

Martin

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[Johnjo]

On my boat the Jackstay is also attached to the cabin top, On the harness tether I have two hooks
one on the end, another three feet from the harness,
When going fo reward to the mast I clip both hooks to the Jackstay, the shorter one stopping me from going over the side,
Abreast of the mast unclip the short one leaving the long one still attached to the jackstay
and step up to the mast, reclip to the mast using the short hook,
reversing the procedure on the return journey. works for me.

mike

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[pkb]

There's nothing wrong with modern harnesses. The issues is how, for example, an 8stone woman is going to help a 12 stone man get back on board. There is all sorts of kit out there but what would be wrong with one of those neat little boarding ladders that hang over the side.

Mark you if your on your own the secret is not to fall off in the first place.

Peter

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[Peppermint]

To broaden this again

I only ever go overboard from the tender. Twice so far, tricky blighters dinghy's. It's always a shock and it's bloody dangerous. If my wife hadn't been a bit nifty last time I'd have come up under the prop.

We've all seen

Overloaded tenders, I saw the full race crew of a hot 30 footer 7 or 8 guys standing up in an Avon Redcrest one evening. Looked like floating rugger scrum.
Poorly equiped tender crews. "Oh! Mum I don't want to carry my lifejacket around town"
Tenders reversing out to sea because the engines stopped and Doh! no oars.
The pissed up crew heading out into the night.

I wonder if maybe we feel a bit safe in harbour and take all our precautions at sea.

I'd bet most drownings, of cruising/racing yotties, happen from tenders



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[claymore]

I'm not sure thats a safe assumption - falling overboard usually comes as bit of surprise and you don't tend to get much notice.
Snowleopards Cat will be flat most of the time so falling off a sloping deck/heeling is not so much the issue.
With a cat the biggest threat of falling off is the distance you can be left behind. So jackstays in the centre of the boat, tennis netting at chest height loads of tape loops hanging down and never leave the cockpit on a broad reach!

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Claymore
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[oldsaltoz]

G'day Snow Leopard,

Have you given any consideration to the fact that if you capsize, a short harness will hold you under the boat?

Hope this never happens....

Avagoodweekend Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif


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[bigmart]

I understand what you are saying. All I meant to infer was that an element of fear can encourage one to be a great deal more careful in the way you move around a boat. Whilst I wear a harness, when conditions dictate that its prudent to do so (most of the time), I cannot remember any time when I have been saved by the wearing of the harness. Presumably because I am very careful in the way I move about.

Now please don't think that I am suggesting that Lifelines Etc. are useless, all I am saying is that fear, & the care it induces, can be the best encouragement to stay on board.

Martin

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[bigmart]

Your just a trouble maker. aren't you.

Martin

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[claymore]

Indeed what you say is absolutely right - having a healthy awareness of the environment is without doubt one of the main factors in staying safe - moving that along, when you do fall off it's normally over quite quickly and without much time for anything except watching the world go by! I've fallen off more rock faces than boats but its a very similar experience in many ways

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Claymore
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[claymore]

Snow leopard sails a cat so being under it shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as he remembers to stay in the middle by the trampoline.

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Claymore
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[snowleopard]

Re:capsize

indeed i have. don't want to start the old mono v multi debate but the same problem applies with a sinking mono. remember morning cloud? since then harnesses have had clips both ends to let you detach yourself.

capsize in a cruising cat is statistically less likely than lightning strike or pirate attack.

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[Mirelle]

Re: To broaden this again

I have always understood that that is indeed the case, but I don't have any numbers.

I find GRP tenders the tippiest, then wooden ones (beware of going into the bows of that pretty little stem dinghy!) and Avons much the steadiest, although they do shoot sideways. An awful lot of tenders have no buoyancy, or not enough of it.....

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[pkb]

Re: To broaden this again

You're spot on. We drop the hook or pick up a bouy after a long passage. Feeling relieved. The Channel's behind us. We're sheltered from the blow. The worst is over. But no its not - the short dinghy passage from boat to shore can be the most dangerous part.

Peter

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[charles_reed]

Re: To broaden this again

A very high proportion (about 65%) of duckings occur from moored boats/tenders.

It is fortunate that the majority of these are not fatal - unless due to thermal shock causing cardiac arrest.
The reason is simple - boats aren't moving, it's usually a dead calm and there are usually plenty of onlookers to offer assistance.

In 80% of those cases C2H5OH is a contributory factor.

Incidentally I've only once had a ducking from a dinghy - and that was in the Guadiana, at night, with a 4 knot current when my crew, preparing to get onto the boat, sat on my head and totally flipped the dinghy.
The water was quite pleasantly warm after motoring the 12 km from Mertola to Pomerao at 22.00.





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[Ohdrat]

Get a "proper" harness as used by scaffholders...... You can get ones that are not only a much higher safety standard than the relative rubbish that are sold in chandleries but also ones that can double as bosuns chair to go aloft in.

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