Is your boat a deathtrap?

Bob

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South of Durban
www.cruiserlog.com
Is your boat a deathtrap?

Does your boat have any foam insulation? Has your boat got a decorative foam backed vinyl stuck on the deckheads and bulkheads, 2 part foam, or sprayed foam?

The moment this foam starts to powder you are in danger of killing yourself or your crew.

The foam in question is a polyurethane foam, it is the only foam that powders. It is broken down into a fine powder through heat and moisture, just what boats in the tropics encounter. It is only a matter of time before this happens.

This powder is highly toxic as are urethane paints.

The chemicals used to make urethane products are:
· Toluene-2,4-Diisocyanate
· Toluene-2,6-Diisocyanate
· Methyl Isocyanate (responsible for the Bohpal disaster, used for pesticides)
· Hexamethylene Diisocyanate
· 3-Chloro-4-Methyl Phenyl Isocyanate
· Isophorone Diisocyanate
· Methylene Bisphenyl Isocyanate

How do I know that this is toxic?

I was unaware of the toxicity of this foam and when I was delivering a Prout Snowgoose 37 from the Canaries to Cape Town the foam backed vinyl that was stuck all over the deckheads and bulkheads started to powder and fall down. It was cosmetic not structural so I did not think it serious.

I ended up with severe edema of the complete respiratory tract and was unable to breath properly for 3 weeks, the 3 crew all had different symptoms and all were affected. Not bad - 100% hit rate.

The boat was eventually abandoned and we were rescued by a Spanish longliner, a Korean car carrier and the Brazilians, all of whom were fantastic, and to whom we owe our lives. The boat was lost. I ended up in hospital for 10 days on cortisones, antihistamines, and having my lungs washed out. The medical staff at the hospital were super I could not have asked for better treatment.

We all still suffer from side effects and pollution makes our lives miserable as the problems come back.

Loraine Cooks had the same problem on her steel boat with the hard version of the foam and got severe dermatitis which, continued for 3 months, and with other symptoms after leaving the boat. She still suffers outbreaks - even synthetic clothing materials cause a breakout. The sad thing is that I warned her husband and not only did he not remove the substance from their boat but he did not tell her. She nearly died as a result. If I had not had to go into Richards Bay on a trip she would have.

Put your hand over your mouth and block your nose so you can only just breath, then put yourself in the middle of the ocean for 3 weeks or get a severe skin rash all over yourself for 3 months, its fun try it.

Severe sinusitis, flu type symptoms, itchy eyes and eye damage, sinus, coughs, asthma, reduced respiratory capacity, headache, nausea (mistaken for seasickness), vomiting and irritability, pulmonary edema, phlegm, fatigue, allergic reactions, kidney and liver damage loss of memory and concentration, cancer, miscarriages, birth defects and death are all caused by these toxins. The effects can be both acute and chronic and once sensitized you will have problems for the rest of your life and be in danger of death if exposed again.........

For the full report by Meme Grant, RYA instructor, examiner Ocean Yachtmaster motor and sail, SAS Ocean motor and sail, SAMSA unlimited motor and sail, ASA Cruising Instructor (30 years of professional ocean going experience) go to:

http://www.cruisingconnections.co.za/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=85
 
Re: Thank you.

Mmm. As you will all know, I suspect, Etaps are stuffed full of foam. However they have been built that way since the early 70's. I'm sure Etap would have used a product that is safe. I have never seen any sign of the foam becoming powder.

Bob, what did Prout say about the problem? Where are Prout built, ar'nt they UK? Do they have any resposibility for your poisoning?
 
Re: Thank you.

I had a plastic boat that had balsa core which turned to black liquid, Just imagin though the thoughts of baveria owners!

I think a wooden boat is the way to go healthly.

Hope your health isent permanently hurt no doubt you got compensation but long term damage would be worse. no compensation and bad health.

Long term damage such as eating sandwiches full of benzines in fule stations which is cumlative seems a worse poisening as its slow peww.

Do people really still buy plastic boats??noooo
 
I always remember that Geoff Pack who was editor of Yachting Monththly dying of a form of cancer that I think is associated with some of these compounds. He was an avid sailer and was a liveaboard for many years.
 
I think

You'll find the problem confined to foam backed carpet, which certainly crumbles after a few years in a warm climate.
The problem is that in the 80s and early 90s the majority of Btitish-built boats were lined with stuck-on foam-backed carpet.

This does trun into a highly irritant "crumb", which frequently produces allergic reactions - but I've not heard of reactions as bad as those described by the starter of this thread.

I've just completed taking off all the foam (usually polyvinyl chloride NOT polyurethane), in my boat and replacing it with 4mm ply backed with foil/polystyrene and faced with headlining cloth (the latter is a most pricey item).
The effect on insulation has been considerable (I'm trying, in the Med to keep heat out not in).
 
We have some foam-backed vinyl that is peeliong in places and has gone a bit crumbly - but no ill effects so far . . .

What chemical analysis can we perform to see if these compounds you mention are involved?

- Nick
 
Doesn't quite ring true............ otherwise every Westerly owner with a case of the droop (headlining of course!!) would be a gonner.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No obvious effect on your verbosity. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Could be verbal diaroehea.
Next phase is Severe sinusitis, flu type symptoms, itchy eyes and eye damage, sinus, coughs, asthma, reduced respiratory capacity, headache, nausea (mistaken for seasickness), vomiting and irritability, pulmonary edema, phlegm, fatigue, allergic reactions, kidney and liver damage loss of memory and concentration, cancer, miscarriages, birth defects and death. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
MSDS ...... (Material safety Data Sheet)

If you google for MSDS on any product .... you arrive at data pages that list all properties and safety issues for products. They literally cover any product that can be transported, produced, used by man ....

Read on through even the most "apparently" safe products and you will be amazed at the listings of effects ..... and precautions to take.

There is the real world, and the technical safe world.
 
Having re-read your post, a question: how do you know it was the headlining that caused your symptoms? After all, thousands of boats go through the droopy headlining process (just a quick search on 'headlining' in this forum will confirm it) yet we don't hear of severe respiratory problems among yachties.
 
We've had a couple of Westerleys with powdery old foam and I've never associated any illnesses with them.

Ok, my wife developed asthma during the years of sailing the last one which cleared up about a year after we sold it but I still reckon that's little to do with the foam - moving to a newer, less leaky and warmer boat probably helped a lot.

As people have said, there'd be thousands of us out there suffering the dreadful symptoms if powdery foam was frequently harmful. Nobody would sue of course because real sailors aren't into the whole compensation culture thing (or so we keep saying).
 
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