Is this rope faulty?

[Baggywrinkle]

I've just received 40m of 14mm anchor line and there are two points in the line where it looks like there is a join of some description in the yarn.

Is this normal? I can't say I've ever seen this before. I want to return the rope but would like the opinion of the forum as to whether I am justified in doing so.

This is for my second anchor so will be deployed in a blow.

See pic ...

 

[fluffc]

That looks quite light rope to be using for emergency anchor lines. Is it a 'fishing' rope?

 

[rustybouy]

looks like it's been snagged on something, quite within your rights to take it back if your not happy, otherwise splice it, minimum 6 tucks or give it a melt with a lighter,it doe'snt look too bad in the photo

Pete

 

[Baggywrinkle]

It is, apparently, Gleistein 14mm Anchor Line (breaking strain 3370kg) which I was going to splice on to 11m of 8mm anchor chain.

http://www.gleistein.com/en/ is the manufacturer but not the retailer I bought from.

It hasn't been snagged. Between the fluffy bits, one piece of the yarn has been joined and bound (like you would with whipping twine but on a much smaller scale).

 

[John the kiwi]

Ask your Future self!

Your future self is the one at anchor in a gale on a lee shore wondering whether this rope will hold.
Also you future self will be wondering why present self accepted what is clearly a defective piece of rope.
If you need to be able to trust anything its your ground tackle cos the anxiety will kill you even if the rope holds, so give your future self a break and reject this rope outright.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Your future self is the one at anchor in a gale on a lee shore wondering whether this rope will hold.
Also you future self will be wondering why present self accepted what is clearly a defective piece of rope.
If you need to be able to trust anything its your ground tackle cos the anxiety will kill you even if the rope holds, so give your future self a break and reject this rope outright.

Great piece of advice, it's going back ...... I am still curious to know if it is normal, but usually hidden inside the rope rather than visible on the outside.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Your future self is the one at anchor in a gale on a lee shore wondering whether this rope will hold.
Also you future self will be wondering why present self accepted what is clearly a defective piece of rope.
If you need to be able to trust anything its your ground tackle cos the anxiety will kill you even if the rope holds, so give your future self a break and reject this rope outright.

What makes you say it's a clearly defective piece of rope? Usually these joins are buried into the lay of the rope and you never see them.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Are these joins normal then? From the tightness and size it looks like it was done before or during the manufacturing process ..... I've just never come across them before.

Any 'experts' who can state categorically if it is normal practice to put joins in the yarn or not?

Does a rope with joins in it have a lower breaking strain?

... now quite curious.

 

[VicS]

Are these joins normal then? From the tightness and size it looks like it was done before or during the manufacturing process ..... I've just never come across them before.

Any 'experts' who can state categorically if it is normal practice to put joins in the yarn or not?

Does a rope with joins in it have a lower breaking strain?

... now quite curious.

The forum expert is Barry Edwards aka boatropes

Perhaps that is who you should have bought your rope from in the first place! http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Boatropes

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The forum expert is Barry Edwards aka boatropes

Perhaps that is who you should have bought your rope from in the first place! http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Boatropes

Thanks for that ... do you think he could be persuaded to ship to Germany?

EDIT: I've mailed him to ask.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The only time I watched rope being made, they were tying the yarns together and losing the knots into the lay of the rope. It was a bit old fashioned and a historic site, so I don't know if modern manufacturing does the same thing...

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Just got a reply from the manufacturer stating:

"bei den abgebildeten Stellen handelt es sich um sogenannte Knotenstellen, welche während des Produktionsprozesses entstehen können.
Die Eigenschaften des Seils sind dadurch nicht beeinträchtigt."

Which basically means it occured during manufacturing and doesn't alter the properties of the rope.

Hmmmmm ...

EDIT: Basically exactly as john_morris_uk stated, just not lost in the lay of the rope ..... yet.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I've just received 40m of 14mm anchor line and there are two points in the line where it looks like there is a join of some description in the yarn.

Is this normal? I can't say I've ever seen this before. I want to return the rope but would like the opinion of the forum as to whether I am justified in doing so.

This is for my second anchor so will be deployed in a blow.

See pic ...

With this type of anchor line if you keep turning around your anchor will it unwind itself?

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Joins in the yarn are common but they are nowhere near as frequent as in natural rope.

Looking at the photo but not having handled it physically it appears (to me) to be quite a soft lay. I don't think that I would like to lie to a rode that had (apparently) so little twist to it.

 

[VicS]

Thanks for that ... do you think he could be persuaded to ship to Germany?

EDIT: I've mailed him to ask.

It'll be interesting to know. Its not clear from his ebay shop. Some items say postage to Europe. Others to UK, Ireland and France.

Which basically means it occured during manufacturing and doesn't alter the properties of the rope.

Hmmmmm ...

Hmmmmm indeed . Imagine abseiling down a mountainside and just as you got to the point of no return you discover the rope was made of assorted bits and pieces knotted together.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It'll be interesting to know. Its not clear from his ebay shop. Some items say postage to Europe. Others to UK, Ireland and France.



Hmmmmm indeed . Imagine abseiling down a mountainside and just as you got to the point of no return you discover the rope was made of assorted bits and pieces knotted together.

Pretty much all rope is made of "bits and pieces knotted together". The yarn is made in finite lengths, and has to be joined from time to time as the individual yarns are laid up into rope. In fact, this seems to be a very thorough job of joining from the OP's description; in natural fibre ropes, the yarns would normally just be twisted together, relying on the lay of the rope to hold it all together.

Think of it this way; in normal use, pretty much every yarn in a conventionally laid rope will become discontinuous as the surface of the rope wears. Until a rope is pretty severely worn, it retains much of its original strength.

That said, I'd be worried if I saw it in a rope I bought; usually these joins are hidden in the lay of the rope, where the pressure of the other yarns can hold everything together. It being on the surface of the rope is probably not a good thing, and may point to poor QA in manufacture, while not being a fatal flaw.

Someone else commented on the soft lay, and wondered about its fitness for use as an anchor warp. My understanding - from Ashley - is that in a softer laid rope, you have more of the individual yarns pointing "along" the rope, so you actually have a stronger rope, but with less elasticity and less wear resistance. A harder lay reduces the ultimate strength, but increases the springiness and wear resistance. As nylon (I think the OP said it was nylon) is pretty elastic anyway, you don't need the additional elasticity, so the increased strength is probably a "good thing".

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The joins disappeared into the rode with a bit of persuasion.

There a 3 strands, each made up of a further 9 strands. It was one of these 9 that was joined. 1/27th of the rope.

I've back-spliced the rope onto 8mm chain and decided to do an experiment with the remaining bits.

The breaking strain of the rope is quoted as 3400kg, so I guess one strand (with a knot in it) should hold 125 kg.

I'll be back in a minute if I don't put myself in hospital trying to break it .....

EDIT: I couldn't break it on my own (75kg approx.) but with number 2 son swinging on it too, it broke (and not at the knot). Total weight approx 130kg + a bit of shock load.

As the main anchor is all chain, and I'd never be hanging on this alone - I'm alot happier now.

 

[boatropes]

Faulty rope? - unlikely.

The forum expert is Barry Edwards aka boatropes

Perhaps that is who you should have bought your rope from in the first place! http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Boatropes

I should have answered this a while ago but only just spotted it. "Forum expert" is too flattering but I'll have a go: A good batch of rope will be made from spools of yarn at least 220m long, the length a normal commercial coil. Occasionally though one of the many dancing spools will run out early and it is replaced mid production run. How they manage it not sure but you will find another end not too far away, facing in the opposite direction, showing the ends are staggered/overlapped, with no strength lost. Only if you find two ends in the same place facing in opposite directions is it a break. Even then don't panic, the very few yarns involved will represent a tiny fraction of the ultimate breaking load. If Gleistein was the manufacturer they usually make good products, mostly too expensive for the UK market. Mine on the other hand...... Unfortunately I can't source good anchorline these days, so I concentrate on US style dockline/anchorline, and specialise in low priced but full spec rigging braids. PS that eBay link for me does work but forum members get more personal service using the phone or email in my signature, as below.