Is this possible? Standing headroom, trailerable, AND seaworthy?

Kelpie

Kelpie

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I'm eyeing up the eventual boat upgrade options and my yachty friends are all moaning about crane and hardstanding costs. As a dinghy sailer I can feel very smug about this, until it rains and they all dissappear below decks, of course.
So I'm wondering how feasible it is to find something in the 'sweet spot' where it retains the ability to be trailed on the road (as in end-of-season, not on a daily basis) but has sufficient headroom in the cabin to stand up, even if it's only in one spot.

I wouldn't really consider this possible unless I was the size I am- less than 5'6 tall. Seems like this could be of some use to me for once.

After a little research it seems possible to find some yachts which feature the following:
- headroom of at least 5'8 in at least one part of the sabin
- a separate heads, or at least a forecabin with heads
- 'trailerable' for end of season transport and storage at home, saving crane hire etc.

Perhaps my favourite so far is the Offshore 8m. But there must be many more.
So any suggestions which boats can fit within these quite narrow criteria?
 
Robwhelton said:
sabin
Click to expand...

Saloon Cabin..Like it
icon14.gif
 
My previous boat, a fin keeled Jaguar 27 I trailed home each winter. I had a single axle trailer which I made into a twin axle which easily took the weight. A friend used his Landrover to tow it but it was on the limit, and he got rid of the LR I had to get someone to tow it with a tractor. You can get bilge keeled Jaguar 27's which would be easier to trail. Good headroom and an excellent seaboat.
 
You might profitably cast an eye over the 2 or 3 'swing-wing' folding trimarans around 27' available in the UK. Each of these will give you the headroom you seek, have some form of fitted heads, and are all eminently trailerable. They are much lighter than their monomaran cousins, so will demand a much less 'gruntier' trailing vehicle and road trailer ( quite some savings there ) and, without a fin keel, will be able to sail into many lochs, anchorages and sheltered crannies denied to anything with a draft over 1 metre.

The possibilities for a shallow-water mooring site, closer to shore, are much wider with a modest-sized tri, and you need have no qualms about seaworthiness - all those on the UK market have crossed oceans and been around Britain.

:)
 
Have a look at www.varne.co.uk. The Varne 27 is a strong and seaworthy 1970s design, weighing in at 2812kgs, she can just go on a trailer behind a 4x4. Fin keeled performance and a lovely motion, particularly in a chop. Various layouts with 4 - 6 berths, standing headroom and separate heads.

OK, I admit I'm biased - I have a Weston 8500, the last derivative of the design.

Rob.
 
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Thanks for the replies so far.
I don't know if I'll ever be converted to multihulls... I mean, I know that 'a flat boat is a happy boat' but getting a nice heel on is what brings a smile to my face :) And anyway I've never seen a cat/tri that I really find aesthetically pleasing.

Some of the suggestions seem quite a bit heavier than I'd assumed possible. I think I had a mental limit of about 2.25-2.5t displacement, factoring in 40% again for the trailer. Am I being too conservative?
Remember also that I don't really want to have to crane the boat onto its trailer- I want to float it on. Some of the deeper keeled and heavier boats make me nervous just thinking about this operation.

I've just looked up some of the smaller Jags and the 23, 24, and 25 seem interesting. Any comments on the seaworthiness of these? I'd be a bit wary of a light boat being stopped by steeper waves.
 
I'm getting fed up with posts from people who want standing room in small boats, what are you planning to do down there, make speeches? How much time do you actually spend standing? not a lot I'l venture. Even on a non stander its not rocket science to build a tent over the sliding hatch cover and create standing room.

I say..get yourself a boat that looks the dogs danglies that you drool over every time you see it, and make yourself fit it. Otherwise get a caravan.

Seriously though, some of the boats suggested might take a small army to launch. If you want the nicest little 20ft Trailer Sailer that is beautifully made, has loads of room and is a doddle to trail and launch and rig, look up the Pippin 20. Its a Tucker design and is made five miles down the road from me (assuming and hoping they havn't gone under like everbody else seems to be doing) There must be ten at Rutland Water and they are perfectly good coastal yachts. As the oldest is only about eight years old you may not find any 'cheap' ones yet, but it is the roomiest 20 footer you will find that can still sail upwind respectably well.


http://www.pippin-yachts.com/

Tim
 
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Alfie168 said:
I'm getting fed up with posts from people who want standing room in small boats, what are you planning to do down there, make speeches? How much time do you actually spend standing? not a lot I'l venture. Even on a non stander its not rocket science to build a tent over the sliding hatch cover and create standing room.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point, actually. I know that standing headroom is going to be hard to find on a trailerable boat, hence I'm restricting it to under the hatch only, and 'standing' for me means 5'6+, cos I'm vertically a bit challenged, you could say.
You may not spend all that much time standing up whilst sailing, but neveretheless I'd be uneasy about giving up the requirement. Just getting in and out of clothing is a lot easier if you can stand up straight, for one thing. And tents and the like do not in any way fall into my description of a 'seaworthy' boat.
 
Hello frm Ausralia.

This is my first post on this forum, though I've been looking for some time. It is evident that the sailing conditions in the UK are signifcantly different to those Down Under.

I think you're going to have to modify some of your selection criteria. Standing headroom is important but the question is how important. Get a yacht with a pop-top that had a tent around it. That's an easy compromise. Most times you would be standing up to get dressed etc is when moored - I assume.

You will need to go to a 25 foot boat as a minimum to get a boat with a closed head. This, in my view, would be a higher criteria than standing headroom. Particularly if you are fortunate to have a partner who likes to go sailing with you.

I would be looking for a trailable with a swing keel or a drop keel. These boats could be towed by a ute with a 3 tonne towing capacity.

For the record, I have a Catalina 22. I think it's called a Jaguar in the UK but may be wrong (wouldn't be the first time!!). I'm 193cm tall (6 feet 3inches) and cope! My next boat will have a closed head. It just makes it that little bit more pleasant (for us both) when sailing with my wife.

I'm not sailing on coastal waters in my 22 footer and certainly would prefer not to be sailing in what appears, from the stories I've read and pictures I've seen, to be rather cold weather.

Roll on summer.

All the best with your search,

Robert
 
Westerly 22

Probably a bit old fashioned for you. We have a 49 year old Gunter rigged Westerly 22 Bilge keel we have a trailer for it Only trailed it a few times. but not difficult. mast can be dropped in 10 mins. We have 5 foot 8 inches in cabin Due to a mod.Floor in cabin Removed many years ago .Most of the westerly are open plan but ours has a separate forpk with heads in front.There are a few about
 
Trailer Sailer

The whole question is a lot of variables.
Firstly a light boat easy for towing is going to have a very lively motion in open rough water. It would be a limiting factor in "seaworthiness". ie safe enough at sea but not comfortable to the point that discomfort is unsafe.
Lift keel TS can be self righting with balast under the poor mine is by frequent testing it is fairly tender but then needs less sail to make it go.
Any forepeak can be made into a heads area of some sort (you might be able to use the forehatch to get headroom). or better still an area near the main entrance hatch but then in a small boat you squander the best place for sitting/sleeping to a heads enclosure.
Headroom can be achieved by the pop top where an area of cabin roof can be raised up another foot or so. They are only usable at anchor but give a lovely breeze through the cabin. (hot weather)

Ultimately any reasonable sized boat is trailerable. Size simply increases the difficulty.(and cost of trailer)Around here at least an over width or over length permit is not so hard to get. You are limited to daylight hours and must carry a sign front and back. That is up to 10ft width then you need an escort vehicle or really wide a police escort. And of course you need to be able to borrow or rent a suitable towing vehicle.

Fin keel boats are manageable providing you have a suitable steep ramp. You will need to lower the jinker down the ramp on a rope to the towing vehicle until it floats off (or on).
Yesterday I helped a friend to (re) launch his fin keel 21fter about 1.6 tonnes, yes a bit tedious but doable each season. He used a 6cyl van to tow it. (a few Kms).

Trailer sailers here in Oz go up to 8.5 metres (Magnum) that is very comfortable. It is designed for launch each time you use it but you need a 4X4 while only 2.5 metrs beam it is enormous on the road.

Mast management is also a compromise. A big boat needs a big mast and takes a bit to get it into place on the tabernacle (or mast base) but actual raising is not difficult. (you usually transport the boat with mast base at the pulpit or even further forward and the whole mast must be slid backwards till the base is in place.

By comparison my 21fter is light at less than 1 tonne does not have standing room or a separate heads compartment, has a mast that is easily manageable. (I have raised it alone but 2 people is best).
It launches retrieves easily on a roll on trailer. It stay home for the winter but recently I took it the water for a winter race. I timed it as 1 hr from finish of the race to boat home. It sails fast in flat water but struggles to windward against rough water ie 20knots of wind. Yet I am sure the boat is seaworthy I am just not sure about the skipper and crew. so good luck anything is possible olewill
 
Trailer Yacht

Have a look at a Hurley 24. Mine has good standing headroom throughout the main cabin and I'm 5'10". Also separate heads. Draft is 4'2" though for bilge and fin versions so launching and recovery would not be easy.
 
Need to be carefull about "seaworthyness". This is primarily related to size - in other words a 40ft bav will be safer in bad weather than (say) a 27ft Vancouver assuming competent crew and that no equipment fails. So even if you can find a 20 footer to suit your requirements, you will still need to treat it like a big dinghy from the safety point of view.
 
It's always a compromise...

Thanks again for the suggestions.
Hurley 24/70 was a potential candidate, possibly on the big side. Do many of these come with trailers? It's actually got more headroom than I strictly need, but I know a lot of people respect them as seaboats.

'Seaworthiness' for me means both ruggedness (no pop tops!) and ability to right itself and make headway in big seas. Where I live, gales can spring up from nowhere, so I would not consider a boat that wasn't going to get me through at least a F8 without making it into an emergency situation.

Anyway, things seem to be pointing towards something with the following characteristics:
- about 2t displacement
- no more than 26ft LOA
- not too beamy

ANd now to fly in the face of this... anybody got any love for the Leisure 23SL? Does it stand for 'slightly luxurious'? Is it just a floating caravan?
 
Have you considered the MacGregor 26 (or is that McGregor 26?)

A friend has one at the harbour. Standing headroom in cabin, seperate heads, a cooker. Floats off and on a trailer, not too beamy.

Downside...
1- would it be a "proper" sailing boat? some purists reckon it's neither a sailer or motor boat.. but I've been out on it. It sails quite nicely and when your're done fire up the 50hp O/B and whizz home.

2- It's built to a price

Just an idea
 
There are dozens of boats out there that will do you. Someone mentioed a Westerly 22, I had the W25 - the "cruiser/racer" version. Very pretty boat, not a lot of room, but easy standing headroom for you under hatch, 4x qtr berths, sep loo, big cockpit, designed for end of season trailing etc etc,

Macwester Rowan is another, the later Leisures, Jaguars, Etap23, Jeneau 23 even a Sadler 26. thebigger ones are quite heavy for launch/ recovery, but I managed my W25 OK with just my family & a 4x4. My pal used to tow his 19' Leisure to a yard & get it craned onto a slipway, or directly in/out the water for each holiday. Cost was much less than chartering or even cottage rent. And completely hassle free.

Get your self a copy of "Bristows Book of Yachts" from the local library (or Amazon) preferably one for the 70's or 80's editions if you are looking for a cheaper used boat. Shortlist a few dozen then research the brokers on the net. That will allow you to narrow down you search to half a dozen to go & see.

One final piece of advice NEVER go out to buy a specific design of boat. Keep an open mind & check out any interesting wild cards you come across. One may surprise you - and you are less likely to pay over the odds for a "must have design" only to find it doesn't actually meet your expectations.

Oh, and do consider some of the "dinghies with lids on" if you might want weekend traiability rather than bring it home at the end of the season.
 
I have spoken to many trailer sailer owners who said in the end they never trailed and sailed much because of all the hassle of doing it. Much more important than standing headroom is the size of the berths. My little Fantasie 19 was a great triple keeler, but I could never get a decent nights sleep as the berths were too narrow. I sailed an Achilles 24, great sailer, like a big dinghy, but try getting into waterproofs down below in a blow, when the outboard is also stored down there. Maybe OK at 21 but not at 40+.

The Varne is a great boat and fast, but take note of the very cambered decks.. OK when well heeled, but a bit tricky when not.

I wouldn't let the costs of craning etc deter you..join a sailing club, get a swinging mooring. At my club, soon to have a huge number of new deep water moorings, we, like many other clubs, hire in a crane for the day, costs about £40 for a lift,each way.
 
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