Is this document proof of VAT paid?

[Whitelighter]

I'm a Brit and I'm trying to buy it :ambivalence:

Yes, but you are in the minority (or part of the enlightened few) who don't insist on a fairline/Sealine/sun seeker/broom or something with a uk dealer.

I assume you are buying to boat in the med?
I bought a Ferretti last year and I know full well that most Brits won't look at one, and that's a brand most have at least heard of!

I like the Intermare, but it's not even on most British buyers radar. Hence my comment.

 

[Nauti-lass John]

Yes, but you are in the minority (or part of the enlightened few) who don't insist on a fairline/Sealine/sun seeker/broom or something with a uk dealer.

I assume you are buying to boat in the med?
I bought a Ferretti last year and I know full well that most Brits won't look at one, and that's a brand most have at least heard of!

I like the Intermare, but it's not even on most British buyers radar. Hence my comment.

I like to think of myself as one of the 'enlightened few'
I discovered several makes of boat, whilst hunting for one, that seem unpopular in the UK. As I intend to spend all summer in the Med it seemed logical not to dismiss any boat that may fit the bill.
I too had to look up Ferratti, I am most impressed with your boat :encouragement:
The final decision came down to 'best deal' I could find, at least 25% cheaper than anything available and suitable in the UK. Also passerelles and aircon/heating are harder to find here.

 

[ari]

So to be clear, these stories you periodically hear of people being asked for ships papers, and 'proof of VAT payment' being one of them - they're all completely fictitious?

Because whilst I totally understand (and accept) the theory - it's not of much comfort if you're sat on your boat surrounded by customs officials threatening to impound the boat until the VAT is paid - if, in fact, it ever happens (hence my question).

 

[Portofino]

So to be clear, these stories you periodically hear of people being asked for ships papers, and 'proof of VAT payment' being one of them - they're all completely fictitious?

Because whilst I totally understand (and accept) the theory - it's not of much comfort if you're sat on your boat surrounded by customs officials threatening to impound the boat until the VAT is paid - if, in fact, it ever happens (hence my question).

In Italy there's an organisation called Guardia d Finanza -
They have marked cars you see on the roads and marked grey 40-50ftr fast patrol boats lurking about .
On my Del trip after refuelling @ Roma as soon as we left the refuel jetty and got 1/2 mile out -blue flashing light we were
Pulled up -Boat has Roma reg decals and IT flag .
We had original " Licenza di Navigazione" with previous owners details ,plus a tempory cover note doc that the broker arranged .
We had to pass these + passports ID + Billof sale over .
40 mins later a lot of laptop tapping and phone calls ,they gave us it all back and waved us on our way .
I suspect as well as vat other taxes like annual boat tax etc was up to date .
The thing about a national Reg system ,bit Like a Car reg ,all details are held on a data base -easy to x ref and check ie they have tapped in the reg no 100m away while heading for us .
On land they follow Ferraris back home to presumably -x ref tax issues too -well start lifting stones looking underneath ? Or used to so much so it's become difficult organising Ferrari owners club meets with our Italian counterparts .

In France they have a reg / boat tax regime too .
I have been done 3x in all in - 9 years on a small Uk part 1 reg Sunseeker ( actually 2x in one year ) .
Here presumably cos of the red ensign they just gone through the "motions " in a busy anchorage with everybody being done ----never asked for VAT proof from me
But Reg doc ,+ Passports , -is the boat nicked ?
homeport -have you come from Morocco with bilges stuffed with drugs ?

- but like most we have a folder ,which I tip out on the table and shuffle through
So they also saw VHF Certs (wife +me ) and my French ""permit d Mer " - kinda French boat driving licence -can,t be sure needed to see last two ?
But as I said all spread out on a table .
Agian a bit of laptop tapping -but no phoning

Both sets of officialdom v polite and BYW armed .

While on the VAT proof doc issue we also have the official IT "irradiation of the flag "cert to complete the paper trail -from Roma port .
Boat had two private owners listed on the IT reg .
It's v unlikely to find its way into Uk waters with a Brit owner .

 

[Tranona]

So to be clear, these stories you periodically hear of people being asked for ships papers, and 'proof of VAT payment' being one of them - they're all completely fictitious?

Because whilst I totally understand (and accept) the theory - it's not of much comfort if you're sat on your boat surrounded by customs officials threatening to impound the boat until the VAT is paid - if, in fact, it ever happens (hence my question).

This has been covered many times here as you well know. There are indeed "stories" but rarely do they have substance.

As already stated earlier on this thread the obsession with VAT evidence in the form of a receipt is a UK thing resulting from our sloppy documentary system for boats which means HMRC state the only evidence they will accept is a commercial receipt, except if the boat is independently imported when the customs receipt is required.

Other states organise themselves in different ways and use more formal and traceable documentation.

The lack of evidence supporting the so called problem does not seem to prevent many people from believing there is. So we are stuck with a myth.

 

[Whitelighter]

I have brought uk flagged boats into foreign ports from Gothenburg, to Kiel to Cherbourg to Athens to kos and everywhere in between.

All the various port or police authorities are interested in the the ship registration, the qualification for the captain, insurance proof and a crew log/transit log if required. I have never, never, in 000s of mile in British flagged boats in Europe been asked to price tax is paid.

The only problem I have ever had is presenting the SSR certificate, which the Greek chief of port said looked like I had 'printed it myself this morning'. When you see the European registration documents you realise how Micky mouse even out Part 1 certificate is...

 

[jfm]

Inspection is common. I was boarded 2 weeks ago off Cannes by 5 armed douanes who sped over in a RIB from an anchored 30m big grey douanes boat. I had anchored about 1/4 mile from them. They went thru the ships papers and fuel receipts etc for half an hour; they practised their crummy English and I my crummy French on a technical topic. They said firmly that I needed a charter contract and I told them that under English law I didn't. They didn't agree but abandoned that discussion. I reminded one of them that he boarded me from the same RIB and Mothership last November and agreed all was ok then, so what does he think might have changed? Anyway they left happy.

Not once did they ask whether the boat was VAT paid or ask to see a purchase invoice. The boat is VAT paid, but I've had similar visits on a previous boat that was not VAT paid (my first Sq58 ) and they were equally happy.

 

[IDAMAY]

In over 25 years of cruising we have been boarded in UK, France, Belgium, Holland and Norway (though never Spain, Germany, Denmark or Sweden). On no occasion were we asked for proof of payment of VAT and only once (in the lock at Vlissingen) was that other hoary old subject, red diesel, mentioned.

Hope this isn't tempting fate as we plan to head south to Portugal this year!

 

[duncan99210]

Lived aboard in the Med for six years, bimbling round from west to east to west to east.... All I've ever been asked for is, as other have said above, SSR, insurance and passports. Not one jot of interest in VAT status. As others on here have said, I think the whole obsession with VAT status is based on a series of myths and misunderstandings about VAT.

 

[jrudge]

Bonafacio in August. Boarded every boat on the quay. Only interested in vat !

 

[nicho]

A few years ago, we were sat in the cockpit of our S41 in Chichester Marina. A couple (man and woman) in bright red matching sailing jackets wandered up and down the pontoon, looking at various boats. We assumed they were looking to buy something, but were surprised when they invited themselves on board! They explained they were tracking non VAT paid boats that hed been brought back to the UK from overseas. They asked if we could point out any boat that was worth more than £250K - they were not interested in anything cheaper. Nevertheless "as we are here", they decided to check all our VAT paperwork, even though the boat was only worth about £150K, and in spite of us making them a cup of tea!

 

[Seastoke]

A few years ago, we were sat in the cockpit of our S41 in Chichester Marina. A couple (man and woman) in bright red matching sailing jackets wandered up and down the pontoon, looking at various boats. We assumed they were looking to buy something, but were surprised when they invited themselves on board! They explained they were tracking non VAT paid boats that hed been brought back to the UK from overseas. They asked if we could point out any boat that was worth more than £250K - they were not interested in anything cheaper. Nevertheless "as we are here", they decided to check all our VAT paperwork, even though the boat was only worth about £150K, and in spite of us making them a cup of tea!

sorry about that me and swimbo ,was desperate for a brew where are you tomorrow

 

[Otter]

Because all the British institutions (brokers, BMF, banks and even our own beloved magazine) have a knobish obsession with having a VAT invoice - even though this doesn't prove vat was paid, or if it was that vat wasn't subsequently recovered (on export to the CIs for example)

It doesn't even prove vat was really charged - all it proves is the broker had a working printer hooked up to some form of document producing software.

I have a certificate from French customs stamped TVA paid, yet Lombard insisted I sign to say I was aware vat might not be paid because there was no original invoice.

Until the British establishment lose this obsession with worthless bits of paper the Europeans (with the rigid registration requirements) will continue to stare and scratch their head at the UK madness when trying to buy a boat

Agree except that the British Establishment has no obsession, it's the YBW forum that does, in the real world for anything other than a higher value recent boat no one thinks there's an issue, but on this forum we see regular paranoia about family boats from the 80's and 90's. Old wives tales and Internet myths are made of resilient stuff

 

[Tranona]

Agree except that the British Establishment has no obsession, it's the YBW forum that does, in the real world for anything other than a higher value recent boat no one thinks there's an issue, but on this forum we see regular paranoia about family boats from the 80's and 90's. Old wives tales and Internet myths are made of resilient stuff

But the forums are only reflecting real life. As wightlighter says just try selling your boat through a broker or try raising finance against it and the "myth" becomes a reality. Of course there are ways round the issue, but it is still there - inevitable because of the complexity of the subject. Of course most people are not affected but it can be a PITA for those who are.

 

[ari]

They explained they were tracking non VAT paid boats that hed been brought back to the UK from overseas. They asked if we could point out any boat that was worth more than £250K - they were not interested in anything cheaper. Nevertheless "as we are here", they decided to check all our VAT paperwork, even though the boat was only worth about £150K, and in spite of us making them a cup of tea!

So it sounds like it isn't all myths and legend - it seems that it does actually happen. Who were these people representing - HM Customs?

Presumably you had proof of VAT to show them? It would be interesting to know what would happen next if you hadn't (presumably they're not going to employ two people to check VAT status with zero intention of acting on any discrepancies, that would be a fantastically pointless exercise).

 

[Tranona]

They could only do something if they suspected VAT fraud. Typically they are looking for illegally imported boats or VAT fraud by a VAT registered entity that owns a boat. An ordinary private boat owner has nothing to fear.