Is this a Bargain?

[flaming]

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2010-mystery-30-9431514/

Mystery 30 cruiser racer. Was much heralded by the fans of more traditional boats when they launched. Didn't sell a whole heap of them though. Asking only £30k for a 2010 boat.

By comparison, on the racier side a Sunfast 3200 also from 2010 is asking £89k.
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2010-jeanneau-sun-fast-3200-9543956/


On the cruisier side an Oceanis 31 also from 2010 is asking £65k.
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2010-beneteau-oceanis-31-9582456/

I know that they're asking prices, and those other boats are a foot or 2 longer, but...

So is this boat a total bargain? Or is it a realistic price for a style of boat that isn't much in demand?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

A very pretty little boat with the emphasis on little. Probably not in great demand because of the lack of accomodation below and in the cockpit - that would be my guess. The interior reminds me of my parents 27ft Albin Vega, but even that had a separate v-berth forward.

Your "living space" is best estimated from waterline length, not LOA ... the mystery comes out at 6.88m LWL

The Sunfast is 9,75m the Oceanis 8,69m - even an Albin Vega (27ft) is 7,01m LWL

..... The Mystery is your architypal "small but perfectly formed" gentleman's sailing boat - therefore not in demand by cruising families.

 

[flaming]

Yes that's sort of my point.... But it was actually basically the same price as the Beneteau when new. Hasn't held its value in the same way though.

 

[bedouin]

I think it is a fair to good price - it is not really in the same sector of the market as the other two. Accommodation is very limited in comparison and although you call it a "cruiser racer" you aren't really going to be racing against the likes of the Sunfast or Oceanis.

Very nice boat though - it would suit me for weekends but probably not longer cruises

 

[flaming]

I guess what surprised me was that we're often told by proponents of narrow "traditional" boats that people will pay a premium for their type over the AWB "caravans" that are the standard offering of the volume manufacturers.
Yet when those sort of boats are offered for sale they never seem to actually sell in high numbers when new, or command premium prices secondhand.

 

[Tranona]

Another thread on the same subject forums.ybw.com/threads/mystery-30-cornish-crabber-boat.614795/

You summed it up well - it did not sell when new because there is a very limited market for such boats at the price asked. In its original Link 30 form it was even more spartan - at least CC upped the spec and quality of finish (as well as price). Does look like a bargain if that style appeals.

Calling it a Mystery was a ploy to link it to the bigger and in all ways better Mystery 35 which had a very different origin and sold relatively well mainly because it was a seriously practical cruising boat but with the looks of the past and performance better than an AWB. They hold their price very well.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I guess what surprised me was that we're often told by proponents of narrow "traditional" boats that people will pay a premium for their type over the AWB "caravans" that are the standard offering of the volume manufacturers.
Yet when those sort of boats are offered for sale they never seem to actually sell in high numbers when new, or command premium prices secondhand.

Boats like that tend to come from companies that have all the right intentions but fall into the nostalgia trap. They end up with offerings that, although pretty and beautifully built, just don't match up to the advantages of more modern designs. Ben/Jen/Bav basically have a better idea of what will sell in large numbers, which is why they are the volume manufacturers and everyone else occupies niches. Niches are only profitable if they command premium prices and are a practical alternative to the run-of-the-mill AWB.

There is a good automotive equivalent in the VW Beetle - VW went down the nostalgia/retro route but based the Beetle on the Golf platform and sold it in the same dealerships ..... customers ooohd and aaaahd over the Beetle, and then bought a Golf for the practicality. VW even cancelled plans for an additional factory when the anticipated demand didn't materialise.

In my fathers day, when we were in our Vega, Moody was producing "floating caravans" and my father still trots out the "Angus Primrose lost his life in one of his own boats" line when he meets a Moody owner. It's quite embarrassing, but what is modern today will be traditional tomorrow - and life goes on.

 

[Tranona]

I guess what surprised me was that we're often told by proponents of narrow "traditional" boats that people will pay a premium for their type over the AWB "caravans" that are the standard offering of the volume manufacturers.
Yet when those sort of boats are offered for sale they never seem to actually sell in high numbers when new, or command premium prices secondhand.

When new, they only appealed to a small number of people and sold at a high price. Up to the late 70s they were the norm but as soon as the equivalent of todays AWBs (Centaurs, Snapdragons, Macwesters etc) hit the market at lower prices, sales slowed and premiums increased until they finally died out. You are right, efforts to sell updated versions generally fail because the small potential pool of buyers who are prepared to pay "more for less" soon gets mopped up.

Some of the "originals" such as the Contessa 26 and 32, Twister, Rustlers31 and 36 have tended to command a premium, but lesser known but in many ways often better boats are just old boats that sell at rock bottom prices compared with what they were new.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

When new, they only appealed to a small number of people and sold at a high price. Up to the late 70s they were the norm but as soon as the equivalent of todays AWBs (Centaurs, Snapdragons, Macwesters etc) hit the market at lower prices, sales slowed and premiums increased until they finally died out. You are right, efforts to sell updated versions generally fail because the small potential pool of buyers who are prepared to pay "more for less" soon gets mopped up.

Some of the "originals" such as the Contessa 26 and 32, Twister, Rustlers31 and 36 have tended to command a premium, but lesser known but in many ways often better boats are just old boats that sell at rock bottom prices compared with what they were new.

better than a Twister...........

 

[Tranona]

better than a Twister...........

Yes, Loads of boats are better than a Twister. If it was the best boat then everybody would have one and nothing else would ever have been made. How boring.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I would suggest it is expensive for what it is. Fairly basic boat inside, bland and un inspiring as a cruising boat with an interior arrangement that is inferior to many modern boats of a similar LOA. There are older cruising boats at that length, for lower cost, with more useful, comfortable interiors and styling. At 30', with this design, it's bargain basement land, mostly these days.

Oceanis 31, being superior in many ways, is not comparable to the Mystery 30 when considering price.

 

[flaming]

Oceanis 31, being superior in many ways, is not comparable to the Mystery 30 when considering price.

My point with that comparison is that the Oceanis and the Mystery were originally sold for pretty similar prices in 2010. But they aren't now in the same price bracket....

And the one who's lost more value is not the one I would have guessed in 2010....

 

[Frogmogman]

It’s a fair point, well made.

My broker advises me that I should be able to get back what I paid for my 2016 lift keel Sun Odyssey 349 3 years ago without too much difficulty. The truth is that the likes of Beneteau and Jeanneau have done so well because they make the boats people actually want to buy.

I could be tempted by that mystery 30 if it weren’t on the wrong side of the channel with all of the vat and regulatory bullshit that goes with it. I’ll most likely replace my boat with a First 27.7 - which go for about the same money as that mystery 30 (which is directly comparable in terms of performance and accommodation) even when the First 27,7s are 5 years older.

 

[E39mad]

The Mystery is a weekend boat in volume comparisons to boats of similar size. A Southerly 32 of the same vintage has almost twice as much internal volume and costs £125000 + for a similar aged boat. The cost in the marina is not reduced because of the small volume either. A lot of negatives.

They look good and apparently sail well so there are some pluses.

 

[doug748]

I guess what surprised me was that we're often told by proponents of narrow "traditional" boats that people will pay a premium for their type over the AWB "caravans" that are the standard offering of the volume manufacturers.....

Is this true? I don't recall anyone saying that, somebody may have. Looks like a dodgy paraphrase to ginger up a response, not that I blame you, it's got very quiet round here.

So is this boat a total bargain? Or is it a realistic price for a style of boat that isn't much in demand?

Both I would say.
Great bargain for people who want a newer boat with some of the advantages of that type
Otherwise, a fair price for a not very popular compromise. Most folk would settle for a 10 grand Hustler and spend the rest on girls and new sails.

.

 

[michael_w]

Some of them weren't very well built. I used to be neighbours with one of the first ones built. Apparently, they forgot to add the foam sandwich in parts of the hull.

 

[bedouin]

The Mystery is a weekend boat in volume comparisons to boats of similar size. A Southerly 32 of the same vintage has almost twice as much internal volume and costs £125000 + for a similar aged boat. The cost in the marina is not reduced because of the small volume either. A lot of negatives.

They look good and apparently sail well so there are some pluses.

I can't imagine many people being prepared to pay that for a 15 year old Southerly.

 

[mrming]

There are so many Thomas designs that are great handicap racers, and the Mystery 30 looks like the kind of boat that should be a bandit on IRC. They never seem to have performed when I’ve looked for results, however. They appear to rate around 0.890 which would seem workable.

 

[Mark-1]

Some of them weren't very well built. I used to be neighbours with one of the first ones built. Apparently, they forgot to add the foam sandwich in parts of the hull.

Interestingly, I knew a guy with a brand new 35 that had endless teething issues.

I don't know what a 'normal' level of faults in a new boat is, though. I knew a Bav dealer a few years ago and they certainly had snags.

 

[justanothersailboat]

I'm not sure if a boat without snags is possible.

I'm also a bit hazy on how forgetting the core in a cored composite design is possible. How sure are people of this?