is there a register for Yachtmasters?

[MonniotC]

Hi MoniotC

Didn’t you send your certificate and log book off to the RYA to be registered? If you did it would have been returned stamped and recorded by the RYA. It would be almost impossible for them to register certificates issued by the numerous institutions that hold the classes, so I think they relied upon holders to register with them. I still have my old log book which goes as far as shore-based Ocean, regrettably I never completed the required sextant workings during the blue water passage to gain the ocean endorsement.

That was my point precisely. I 'phoned the RYA to see if there was some way of getting a proper record made of my having passed the exams (if they did not already keep such records). The answer was no they did not, so hard cheese.

Edit: This was about 30 years ago. Things may be different nowadays - I wouldn't know.

 

[alant]

Suggest you re-read post#32 where John clearly makes the distinction between Yachtmaster and commercially endorsed.

"Yachtmaster" on its own has no professional meaning as it is personal to the individual and does not allow the holder to gain any commercial advantage.

If the holder does want to use it as proof of his qualifications to do a job it must be commercially endorsed and will be checked for authenticity by employers.

I was replying to #35.

 

[alant]

I’ll go one step further and say that people can call themselves RYA Yachtmasters for all I care. If they’re not, who are they kidding? I can call myself a retired astronaut with a degree in astrophysics but what’s the point? I’ll either be derided as a charlatan if people find out the truth or I’m boasting and that’s a poor reflection of my character.

As I said before, the qualification only counts for anything except personal pride and sense of achievement when you use it commercially. If you try doing that without the ticket you get found out. I remember having to examine a very experienced Italian captain who’d paid for a ‘fake’ Yachtmaster course and ticket. He arrived in the UK with sights and compass check and log book wanting to get his YM Ocean. The ticket he’d got was a sham.

The other benefit is that the scheme (partly because it’s so successful) may help to keep the spectre of regulation away from yachting and boating in the UK for a bit longer.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-25068.html

 

[Uricanejack]

If people were issued with "what is claimed ro be Yachtmaster Certificates of Competance", then unless it is an RYA copyright, then surely they are entitled to call themselves Yachtmaster. Haven't looked at my certificates recently, but do they specifically state RYA Yachtmaster.

There is at least one other organisation (IYT) are approved by the MCA to train and examine on behalf of the MCA For all the various commercial yacht certificates. I think they currently call them Master Of Yachts rather Than Yachtmaster.
I have certainly seen an IYT instructor sign his posts as an IYT Yactmaster on other Forums.

If I remember correctly the RYA lost the Yachtmaster Trade Mark case. Against the IYT. I am not sure if there are any other organisations approved by the MCA to issue certificates .

If a holder of an MCA certificate to be Master of a Yacht up to whatever sise. wants to call themselves a Yachtmaster. I cant see why not. Just as long as they don't say RYA.

 

[alant]

There is at least one other organisation (IYT Canadian) are approved by the MCA to train and examine on behalf of the MCA For all the various commercial yacht certificates. I think they currently call them Master Of Yachts rather Than Yachtmaster.
I have certainly seen an IYT instructor sign his posts as an IYT Yactmaster on other Forums.

If I remember correctly the RYA lost the Yachtmaster Trade Mark case. Against the IYT. I am not sure if there are any other organisations approved by the MCA to issue certificates .

If a holder of an MCA certificate to be Master of a Yacht up to whatever sise. wants to call themselves a Yachtmaster. I cant see why not. Just as long as they don't say RYA.

Read the link above.

 

[Uricanejack]

You can call yourself all sorts of things including captain and pilot. Try getting a job and prospective employers start checking your credentials. If you’re not working and want to call yourself a Yachtmaster when you’re not you’re only fooling yourself.

Some of my certificates and letters of order are irreplaceable. Once lost they can’t be duplicated or replaced. When I’ve moved jobs they get sent up to some offices in Westminster by registered post (don’t know why they don’t remember the last time they were sent..!) and they get returned registered post. I suspect other professionals are in similar circumstances.

I don’t know what the fuss is about possible problems with replacement of a DS Cert or an old YM certificate. Unless you’re commercially endorsed and working in the Yachting industry it’s a personal thing anyway.

Admittedly I have only heard this second hand. On this forum. Certain TPL Mediterranean Countries. Which are popular charter destinations are reportedly insisting upon on proof of qualification. The ICC preferred. The ICC being issued free of charge to DS certificates holders.
I would think this would make the ability to get a misplaced or lost certificate important to those who have completed the course and been issued a certificate.

One of the reasons I took CYA certification was to show proof. Of knowledge and experience. To Charter.
I would be miffed if they could not verify my certification. Just because I did the course 25 or 30 years ago. I might still want to show it to someone who charters boats.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Admittedly I have only heard this second hand. On this forum. Certain TPL Mediterranean Countries. Which are popular charter destinations are reportedly insisting upon on proof of qualification. The ICC preferred. The ICC being issued free of charge to DS certificates holders.
I would think this would make the ability to get a misplaced or lost certificate important to those who have completed the course and been issued a certificate.

One of the reasons I took CYA certification was to show proof. Of knowledge and experience. To Charter.
I would be miffed if they could not verify my certification. Just because I did the course 25 or 30 years ago. I might still want to show it to someone who charters boats.

But you admit that you personally don't have a Day Skipper Certificate. Righteous indignation on behalf of a possible scenario for another possible person seems a little OTT to my simple mind.

 

[Uricanejack]

But you admit that you personally don't have a Day Skipper Certificate. Righteous indignation on behalf of a possible scenario for another possible person seems a little OTT to my simple mind.

No. I don't have any RYA certification. You may call it righteous indignation if you want. I would say its just information about the quality of service the RYA provide.
I have been contemplating pursuing an RYA certification. Its just me expressing surprise, at the lack of record keeping and forming an opinion of the quality of the RYA as a certifying body. As you can possibly guess I am not impressed.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Hi

It would be interesting to hear from an RYA representative on the matter of records of recipients of RYA certificates etc.
But in the meantime the following is copied directly from my old logbook;

‘Note: Récord of award of certificates of satisfactory completion of courses. Holders of these certificates may forward Log books, with certificates affixed to the RYA for a record of certificates held to be made in the register of certificate holders. Unless this done the RYA will be unable to replace lost certificates. Log books forwarded for recording of certificates must be accompanied by a stamped addressed envelope for return.’

So if some of the posts in this thread are correct the above paragraph is load of old cobblers and the RYA never recorded certificates, which seems a bit odd for the recognised boating authority in the U.K.?

Re the original query about a register of Yachtmasters, I can see the problems in publishing such a list with the current legislation concerning personal privacy etc. However maybe if the RYA published an article in their magazine on the possibilities of publishing such a register, current holders might be persuaded to authorise the release of their names?

The point that the acquisition of a Yachtmaster Certificate of Competance is very much a personal achievement and not really a commercial qualification is well made and I still remember the thrill when the examiner said that I had achieved the level required to be awarded a Yachtmaster Certificate.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I spoke to the director at the RYA last year. There were no records kept before 2011. This was the year that he started working with them, all records were with the schools before this date. Yacht master, coastal skipper, day skipper, competent crew.

 

[lpdsn]

I don't have a day skipper so doesn't matter to me. If on the other hand I had taken the time and paid the money to go and get a RYA Day Skipper even if it was years ago. If I wanted to go charter a boat.
I would be a bit miffed if I could not get a replacement certificate or get my ICC because the RYA didn't bother to keep a record of it.

I'd be surprised if a charter company took a thirty-year-old Day Skipper ticket with no experience since seriously, whether you had a copy of it or not. Again, they'd either be the sort of place that let beginners take a boat (e.g. Greek flotilla) or they'd want you to show some decent experience. The owner of a place I used to charter from used to charter boats to people with no quals. He reckoned he could make an informed decision after twenty or thirty minutes chat and he claimed never to have got it wrong.

 

[Blue Sunray]

In summary:

RYA qualifications/instucting - great hobby, God knows why anyone would rely on them when making any offer of employment.

I suspect that I might be an odd one out here in that I thought that I did not have any RYA certs, until, looking through some old documents, I found that I had one awarded as a side effect of a course I did at work many moons ago.

Meanwhile I'm off to buy a commando beret from a surplus shop, has having one obviously means that I've passed the course.

 

[john_morris_uk]

No. I don't have any RYA certification. You may call it righteous indignation if you want. I would say its just information about the quality of service the RYA provide.
I have been contemplating pursuing an RYA certification. Its just me expressing surprise, at the lack of record keeping and forming an opinion of the quality of the RYA as a certifying body. As you can possibly guess I am not impressed.

But the whole certification business has changed beyond all recognition in recent years.

As others have pointed out, there was a warning about the lack of automatic record keeping centrally and with a requirement for people to send their certificates in to be recorded if that was important to them.

The RYA now keep very good records.

I'm not here to defend the RYA (even though I work for them from time to time) but the mud you are slinging isn't really hitting the target and sticking. You appear to have an axe to grind. Did you have a bad experience of an RYA registered school or some part of the Exam system at some time in the past?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Meanwhile I'm off to buy a commando beret from a surplus shop, has having one obviously means that I've passed the course.

Of course it does. You can only get one from stores if you've passed the course, but I'm sure there are plenty available on the surplus market. Lots of military outfitters will sell you one too. Here's a reputable one: http://www.gievesandhawkes.com/military.html I will watch with interest when you wear it on some suitable public occasion.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Of course it does. You can only get one from stores if you've passed the course, but I'm sure there are plenty available on the surplus market. Lots of military outfitters will sell you one too. Here's a reputable one: http://www.gievesandhawkes.com/military.html I will watch with interest when you wear it on some suitable public occasion.

And that, my friends, is what is known as a bite.

 

[john_morris_uk]

And that, my frends, is what is know as a bite. :-D

If I'd wanted to bite I'd have been a lot more verbose.

I was trying to be funny and obviously failed.

 

[Blue Sunray]

If I'd wanted to bite I'd have been a lot more verbose.

I was trying to be funny and obviously failed.

Hook, line and sinker.

 

[lpdsn]

Hook, line and sinker.

Is that a confession that you've been trolling?

 

[Uricanejack]

Hi

It would be interesting to hear from an RYA representative on the matter of records of recipients of RYA certificates etc.
But in the meantime the following is copied directly from my old logbook;

‘Note: Récord of award of certificates of satisfactory completion of courses. Holders of these certificates may forward Log books, with certificates affixed to the RYA for a record of certificates held to be made in the register of certificate holders. Unless this done the RYA will be unable to replace lost certificates. Log books forwarded for recording of certificates must be accompanied by a stamped addressed envelope for return.’

So if some of the posts in this thread are correct the above paragraph is load of old cobblers and the RYA never recorded certificates, which seems a bit odd for the recognised boating authority in the U.K.?

Re the original query about a register of Yachtmasters, I can see the problems in publishing such a list with the current legislation concerning personal privacy etc. However maybe if the RYA published an article in their magazine on the possibilities of publishing such a register, current holders might be persuaded to authorise the release of their names?

The point that the acquisition of a Yachtmaster Certificate of Competance is very much a personal achievement and not really a commercial qualification is well made and I still remember the thrill when the examiner said that I had achieved the level required to be awarded a Yachtmaster Certificate.

Interesting. This post indicates at some time in the past it was up to the individual to ensure his or her certificate was registered.
Ok. Still not very good. It should have been up to the School, The Instructor or The Examiner to send the information to a central register.

Having a Public Register. Isn't really important. The MCA doesn't. But they do have a registry of all certificates issued, Date Place and No. Its private info. Belongs to the Certificate holder. It is however verifiable.
Company hiring can check. Does Joe Blow have certificate No and is his CPE and Medical up to date.

It is a personal achievement to be proud of. A record should have been kept.
I take my hat of to anyone who achieves it. I am just quite disappointed the RYA couldn't be bothered to keep records.
Which is a comment about the RYA not the people who hold its certificates.

 

[Uricanejack]

replied to wrong post