is there a register for Yachtmasters?

[john_morris_uk]

I think I still have one of them thar sustificates signed by one 'Bill' Anderson, from back in the good old days when he was still an RN powder monkey.


The 'Examination' included, as I seem to recall, questions on 'sending down the topmasts' and 'bosuns calls for all hands to make and mend'.....

Bill Anderson was responsible for appointing me as an examiner. I spent a very pleasant weekend at sea with him and a few others learning how to administer the exam system. It’s changed and developed a bit since then.

 

[lpdsn]

I don’t think anyone on the original scheme envisaged how the qualifications would take off and be used commercially in the way it now is.

I thought the original scheme was for the quals to be used on an MTB or navigating a corvette across to Canada? At one stage when wanting to do the shorebased I did exchange letters with an ex-RN captain that was tring to keep alive the RNSVR and offering shorebased training but his schedule just didn't fit in with the damands of my job.

 

[Uricanejack]

C'mon, someone who did a day skipper course thirty odd years ago will have either gained enough experience since to be a competent skipper with a good chance of passing a YM exam or will have forgotten 99.9% of it. Either way the old Day Skipper cert will be pretty much irrelevant.

I don't have a day skipper so doesn't matter to me. If on the other hand I had taken the time and paid the money to go and get a RYA Day Skipper even if it was years ago. If I wanted to go charter a boat.
I would be a bit miffed if I could not get a replacement certificate or get my ICC because the RYA didn't bother to keep a record of it.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Hi

I haven’t seen a recent Yachtmaster Certificate, but mine issued in 1983 (No. 5247) was a distinctly ‘posh’ affair that looked like a British Passport, but no photo. But I do have a Tilley hat!

 

[Blue Sunray]

Only then can you call yourself a YM.

Is there actually anything in law to back this up? It's the sort of thing that in the UK is rather inconsistent eg 'Architect' is legally protected but 'Accountant' or 'Engineer' is not.

On the original question, I'd have thought that it would be unlikely they even if they held a list the RYA would be allowed to publish it under current legislation.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Hi MoniotC

Didn’t you send your certificate and log book off to the RYA to be registered? If you did it would have been returned stamped and recorded by the RYA. It would be almost impossible for them to register certificates issued by the numerous institutions that hold the classes, so I think they relied upon holders to register with them. I still have my old log book which goes as far as shore-based Ocean, regrettably I never completed the required sextant workings during the blue water passage to gain the ocean endorsement.

 

[Graham376]

Is there actually anything in law to back this up? It's the sort of thing that in the UK is rather inconsistent eg 'Architect' is legally protected but 'Accountant' or 'Engineer' is not.

On the original question, I'd have thought that it would be unlikely they even if they held a list the RYA would be allowed to publish it under current legislation.

I seem to remember some action a few years ago when another organisation was using course or qualification names the RYA said were their property, can't remember the outcome.

I think you're correct about access to data held by RYA as we never gave consent for it to be published or accessed by others.

 

[RobF]

Hi

I haven’t seen a recent Yachtmaster Certificate, but mine issued in 1983 (No. 5247) was a distinctly ‘posh’ affair that looked like a British Passport, but no photo. But I do have a Tilley hat!

I did my Coastal Yachtmaster about 6 years ago. Still looks like a blue British passport and usefully now contains a photo, (which was counter-signed by the examiner).

I seem to recall that YMEs are a pretty small bunch (about 50 individuals globally). Mine had clearly spent some time sailing in the Solent as he seemed to know every buoy, every cardinal & every harbour and would use some of his downtime to correct out of date charts on the sailing school boats!

Looking to do my YM Offshore in the next year.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I seem to remember some action a few years ago when another organisation was using course or qualification names the RYA said were their property, can't remember the outcome.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was not querying the legality of others providing qualifications, which is covered under IP laws, but about an individual describing themselves as a yacht master or Yacht Master.

 

[alant]

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was not querying the legality of others providing qualifications, which is covered under IP laws, but about an individual describing themselves as a yacht master or Yacht Master.

Isn't Yachtmaster a registered brand?

 

[Blue Sunray]

Isn't Yachtmaster a registered brand?

Possibly, but would that stop someone referring to themselves as a yacht master or Yacht Master? It certainly wouldn't of itself give rise to an offence like misusing 'Architect'.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Possibly, but would that stop someone referring to themselves as a yacht master or Yacht Master?

You can call yourself all sorts of things including captain and pilot. Try getting a job and prospective employers start checking your credentials. If you’re not working and want to call yourself a Yachtmaster when you’re not you’re only fooling yourself.

Some of my certificates and letters of order are irreplaceable. Once lost they can’t be duplicated or replaced. When I’ve moved jobs they get sent up to some offices in Westminster by registered post (don’t know why they don’t remember the last time they were sent..!) and they get returned registered post. I suspect other professionals are in similar circumstances.

I don’t know what the fuss is about possible problems with replacement of a DS Cert or an old YM certificate. Unless you’re commercially endorsed and working in the Yachting industry it’s a personal thing anyway.

 

[RobbieW]

For all the reasons given its unlikely that the RYA would make a register public. However most commercially endorsed yachtmasters who are actively working should be used to sending copies of their certificates, including medical, to potential employers. If thats the basis for the query, just ask and dont employ someone who doesnt supply evidence.

 

[alant]

Possibly, but would that stop someone referring to themselves as a yacht master or Yacht Master? It certainly wouldn't of itself give rise to an offence like misusing 'Architect'.

Well IIRC rhe RYA took legal action against some organisation using the term "Yachtmaster".

 

[john_morris_uk]

Well IIRC rhe RYA took legal action against some organisation using the term "Yachtmaster".

But that was for them issuing what they claimed were Yachmaster Certificates of Competence. Not much to do with whether the people who were given the tickets called themselves 'Yachtmasters'. (They might have thought they were, but they weren't RYA Yachtmasters.

Please note: Other professional certificates of competence are available and recognised by the MCA and other authorities...

 

[alant]

But that was for them issuing what they claimed were Yachmaster Certificates of Competence. Not much to do with whether the people who were given the tickets called themselves 'Yachmasters'. (They might have thought they were, but they weren't RYA Yachtmasters.

Please note: Other professional certificates of competence are available and recognised by the MCA and other authorities...

If people were issued with "what is claimed ro be Yachtmaster Certificates of Competance", then unless it is an RYA copyright, then surely they are entitled to call themselves Yachtmaster. Haven't looked at my certificates recently, but do they specifically state RYA Yachtmaster.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If people were issued with "what is claimed ro be Yachtmaster Certificates of Competance", then unless it is an RYA copyright, then surely they are entitled to call themselves Yachtmaster. Haven't looked at my certificates recently, but do they specifically state RYA Yachtmaster.

Firstly, you don't appear to have read what I wrote.

Secondly, they can call themselves what they want. However if they want a job, they will find themselves up against reality.

 

[alant]

Firstly, you don't appear to have read what I wrote.

Secondly, they can call themselves what they want. However if they want a job, they will find themselves up against reality.

I did read your post, no reference was made to using their "Yachtmaster" for a job.
You obviously didn't read mine.
Unless "Yachtmaster" is a copyright held by the RYA, there is no reason why someone holding a non RYA CoC, cannot call themselves Yachtmaster. Obviously they cannot claim to be a RYA Yachtmaster.

 

[Tranona]

I did read your post, no reference was made to using their "Yachtmaster" for a job.
You obviously didn't read mine.
Unless "Yachtmaster" is a copyright held by the RYA, there is no reason why someone holding a non RYA CoC, cannot call themselves Yachtmaster. Obviously they cannot claim to be a RYA Yachtmaster.

Suggest you re-read post#32 where John clearly makes the distinction between Yachtmaster and commercially endorsed.

"Yachtmaster" on its own has no professional meaning as it is personal to the individual and does not allow the holder to gain any commercial advantage.

If the holder does want to use it as proof of his qualifications to do a job it must be commercially endorsed and will be checked for authenticity by employers.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Suggest you re-read post#32 where John clearly makes the distinction between Yachtmaster and commercially endorsed.

"Yachtmaster" on its own has no professional meaning as it is personal to the individual and does not allow the holder to gain any commercial advantage.

If the holder does want to use it as proof of his qualifications to do a job it must be commercially endorsed and will be checked for authenticity by employers.

I’ll go one step further and say that people can call themselves RYA Yachtmasters for all I care. If they’re not, who are they kidding? I can call myself a retired astronaut with a degree in astrophysics but what’s the point? I’ll either be derided as a charlatan if people find out the truth or I’m boasting and that’s a poor reflection of my character.

As I said before, the qualification only counts for anything except personal pride and sense of achievement when you use it commercially. If you try doing that without the ticket you get found out. I remember having to examine a very experienced Italian captain who’d paid for a ‘fake’ Yachtmaster course and ticket. He arrived in the UK with sights and compass check and log book wanting to get his YM Ocean. The ticket he’d got was a sham.

The other benefit is that the scheme (partly because it’s so successful) may help to keep the spectre of regulation away from yachting and boating in the UK for a bit longer.