Is the RNLI getting to remote from its Raison d'être

[bedouin]

'There are no bad soldiers, only bad officers' a good sentiment but IMHO a trifle simplistic. Put another way, a mangment failure, quite possibly, but not necessarily a culpable one.

Without passing judgment on this particular case there are people who are unmanageable. particularly people who think they are indispensible. Commercial organisations are usually very good at weeding those out, but it is much harder in a semi-voluntary organisation like RNLI

 

[superheat6k]

I note that the statement put out on Friday by the RNLI was from the Director of Community Lifesaving and Fundraing and not the People and Transformation Director.

Having read the credentials of the Executive Team and in particular the job description of the latter I do wonder if change is being forced on the volunteer crews to suit a higher level agenda.

Lots of lovely 'Corporate Speak' in the wordings used to describe the Executive.

https://rnli.org/about-us/how-the-rnli-is-run/our-executive-team

I wonder how any reply to my enquiry about this fiasco will be worded.

 

[Jegs]

Surely the underlying problem is the covering up of the identity of those responsible for the accusations, thereby preventing the crew member who seems to have been falsely accused to seek lawful redress if he/she so desires.

ATB,

John G

 

[Blue Sunray]

Surely the underlying problem is the covering up of the identity of those responsible for the accusations, thereby preventing the crew member who seems to have been falsely accused to seek lawful redress if he/she so desires.

ATB,

John G

A bit of a double edged sword that one. To look at another way, person in smallish community seems something they perceive to be wrong considers reporting this to the responsible authorities, but they know that if they do so their details will be handed to the accused, that is as highly lightly to discourage whistleblowing and not what (IMHO) is desirable.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Without passing judgment on this particular case there are people who are unmanageable. particularly people who think they are indispensible. Commercial organisations are usually very good at weeding those out, but it is much harder in a semi-voluntary organisation like RNLI

:encouragement:

 

[MrB]

A bit of a double edged sword that one. To look at another way, person in smallish community seems something they perceive to be wrong considers reporting this to the responsible authorities, but they know that if they do so their details will be handed to the accused, that is as highly lightly to discourage whistleblowing and not what (IMHO) is desirable.

On the other hand, said person could be acting maliciously with their accusations to cause the accused problems.
This happened to me a few weeks ago and as it was published it was libel, I could prove without a doubt said allegations towards me were untrue. I pushed for the the accusers details as this was slander (spoken) and could also prove this 100% (I also knew who it was but wanted even more proof they said it). To cut a long story short I accepted a full apology (published in print) that what was said and published was totally untrue. Maybe this is all the accused wants?

 

[Blue Sunray]

On the other hand, said person could be acting maliciously with their accusations to cause the accused problems.
This happened to me a few weeks ago and as it was published it was libel, I could prove without a doubt said allegations towards me were untrue. I pushed for the the accusers details as this was slander (spoken) and could also prove this 100% (I also knew who it was but wanted even more proof they said it). To cut a long story short I accepted a full apology (published in print) that what was said and published was totally untrue. Maybe this is all the accused wants?

Not sure it's fair to extrapolate from your experience, nor that throwing one's teddy out of the pram to the extent that has gone on here is justified, particularly given the RNLI's apology.

 

[Jegs]

A bit of a double edged sword that one. To look at another way, person in smallish community seems something they perceive to be wrong considers reporting this to the responsible authorities, but they know that if they do so their details will be handed to the accused, that is as highly lightly to discourage whistleblowing and not what (IMHO) is desirable.

Only if one lack's the moral fibre to accept responsibility for one's actions.

ATB,

John G

 

[Bru]

I get the distinct impression that RNLI head office has been, of late, taking a firm tug on the control strings with stations that have got a bit too used to doing their own thing without reference to the operating procedures and policies of the organisation

Not a happy situation for any of the parties involved I suspect

 

[Blue Sunray]

Only if one lack's the moral fibre to accept responsibility for one's actions.

ATB,

John G

That is the sort of attitude that has allowed so many much evil to go unreported over the years, as exemplified by the recent revelations about sexual assaults but with many other examples large and small.

 

[volvopaul]

Seems a lot of nonsense has now led to the RNLI driving its offshore boat away from St Helier station today. The RNLI is quite literally taking its bat home. That this boat was largely financed by the good people of Jersey is another matter entirely.

I am certainly not sure how this helps mariners in trouble, which is why I pay my monthly subscription as a Governor Member of the RNLI.

I do not know enough about the real reason behind all this nonsense, but what the RNLI did today I find beyond the pale.

I am seriously considering resigning my membership in favour of my local lifeboat where I can at least see my contribution paying for equipment and crew training rather than Directors' salaries and cosseted lifestyles I could only dream about.

Before I move to that stage I do feel I need to understand the full picture here. Can anyone assist with this ? I have read the thread on scuttlebutt but feel I need to also consider the views of others here too. Is my contribution being best assigned presently ?

Posts like this take me back to 1999 when my Dad passed away, we sent all the cash from his collection from memory over £500 to the RNLI with a short letter saying how much he loved the sea and he was a boater for much of his life .

As most of you can imagine in the weeks after his passing life wasn’t much fun, he had just bought his dream boat and sadly left us literally 2 weeks after the purchase, my family and I took comfort in the fact he did get one night aboard and a run up the Beaulieu river from Lymington Yacht haven . Lymington was his favourite spot so we sent the cheque to them , which would have been sent to head office .
Weeks passed for us to hear nothing so my Sister called them , sadly not even a thank you or any sort of recognition regarding the contribution , this showed us that it was obviously just a drop in the ocean to them , for us at the time it meant the world that his passing would have brought some good to the cause.

I’ve always made a yearly direct debit to them and still do even though I’m no longer a boater in terms of ownership , I do still obviously get out when at work.

After reading through the whole thread I’ve still very mixed views in my mind over how this massively cash rich charity is managed, what also alarms me is the telesales and postal begging that goes on.

The organisation is like no other in the world that covers our shorelines , no other country in the world has what we have , we should respect it , reading this post gives a degree of mistrust , I just hope this can be sorted returning things and views over it as it should be . Sad reading in my view.

 

[Robin]

Posts like this take me back to 1999 when my Dad passed away, we sent all the cash from his collection from memory over £500 to the RNLI with a short letter saying how much he loved the sea and he was a boater for much of his life .

As most of you can imagine in the weeks after his passing life wasn’t much fun, he had just bought his dream boat and sadly left us literally 2 weeks after the purchase, my family and I took comfort in the fact he did get one night aboard and a run up the Beaulieu river from Lymington Yacht haven . Lymington was his favourite spot so we sent the cheque to them , which would have been sent to head office .
Weeks passed for us to hear nothing so my Sister called them , sadly not even a thank you or any sort of recognition regarding the contribution , this showed us that it was obviously just a drop in the ocean to them , for us at the time it meant the world that his passing would have brought some good to the cause.

I’ve always made a yearly direct debit to them and still do even though I’m no longer a boater in terms of ownership , I do still obviously get out when at work.

After reading through the whole thread I’ve still very mixed views in my mind over how this massively cash rich charity is managed, what also alarms me is the telesales and postal begging that goes on.

The organisation is like no other in the world that covers our shorelines , no other country in the world has what we have , we should respect it , reading this post gives a degree of mistrust , I just hope this can be sorted returning things and views over it as it should be . Sad reading in my view.

Very well said.indeed :encouragement:

 

[Capt Popeye]

Posts like this take me back to 1999 when my Dad passed away, we sent all the cash from his collection from memory over £500 to the RNLI with a short letter saying how much he loved the sea and he was a boater for much of his life .

As most of you can imagine in the weeks after his passing life wasn’t much fun, he had just bought his dream boat and sadly left us literally 2 weeks after the purchase, my family and I took comfort in the fact he did get one night aboard and a run up the Beaulieu river from Lymington Yacht haven . Lymington was his favourite spot so we sent the cheque to them , which would have been sent to head office .
Weeks passed for us to hear nothing so my Sister called them , sadly not even a thank you or any sort of recognition regarding the contribution , this showed us that it was obviously just a drop in the ocean to them , for us at the time it meant the world that his passing would have brought some good to the cause.

I’ve always made a yearly direct debit to them and still do even though I’m no longer a boater in terms of ownership , I do still obviously get out when at work.

After reading through the whole thread I’ve still very mixed views in my mind over how this massively cash rich charity is managed, what also alarms me is the telesales and postal begging that goes on.

The organisation is like no other in the world that covers our shorelines , no other country in the world has what we have , we should respect it , reading this post gives a degree of mistrust , I just hope this can be sorted returning things and views over it as it should be . Sad reading in my view.

Humm might say that i have been closely involved over many years with another Charity, and was party to a family donating a quite sizable sum to the Charity when they sold up their business assets; well the thank you reply did come, it was clearly a standard letter with just the Donor Names and Details added, plus a fair proportion of the Standard letter stating that extra donations would be appreciated, thank you.
It left the donor family quite devastated, they soon broke off all contact with the Business / Charity .
Yes so did I

Seems as if we now have professional Charity and Not For Profit Workers trained and oh so ready to take on us Public with their requests and demands for Donations; but are they or do they have the Personal qualities that one might expect for such personnel in Charities, I do wonder, most of the time these days.
Mind you I suspect that our Govts are having a hand in this somehow, as I understand that the Coastguards were involved in this Island issue.

 

[volvopaul]

Humm might say that i have been closely involved over many years with another Charity, and was party to a family donating a quite sizable sum to the Charity when they sold up their business assets; well the thank you reply did come, it was clearly a standard letter with just the Donor Names and Details added, plus a fair proportion of the Standard letter stating that extra donations would be appreciated, thank you.
It left the donor family quite devastated, they soon broke off all contact with the Business / Charity .
Yes so did I

Seems as if we now have professional Charity and Not For Profit Workers trained and oh so ready to take on us Public with their requests and demands for Donations; but are they or do they have the Personal qualities that one might expect for such personnel in Charities, I do wonder, most of the time these days.
Mind you I suspect that our Govts are having a hand in this somehow, as I understand that the Coastguards were involved in this Island issue.

If the uk government ever got involved in this charity it would be doomed just like everything else that’s been touched over the years, I’m not slating the existing government, it’s the whole dam lot of them that’s ruined everything we have built since the end of WW2.

If they ever got involved you could just imagine budget cuts being applied to the service just like our existing emergency services, it’s the one thing they should never get there hands on, our coastguard has already suffered unimaginable consequences in the last year or 2.

 

[Capt Popeye]

If the uk government ever got involved in this charity it would be doomed just like everything else that’s been touched over the years, I’m not slating the existing government, it’s the whole dam lot of them that’s ruined everything we have built since the end of WW2.

If they ever got involved you could just imagine budget cuts being applied to the service just like our existing emergency services, it’s the one thing they should never get there hands on, our coastguard has already suffered unimaginable consequences in the last year or 2.

Humm ah, well, I did not mean to suggest that any UK Govt got involved with the RNLI (God forbid) just that in our UK Search and Rescue I understand that the Govt have influenced the role of the Coast Guard and it just might be that the RNLI Management have agreed a sort of 'course of action' in the event of Coast Guard receiving a May Day or Pan Pan call; just maybe the Coxswain preferred due to past experience to respond as he has in the past., and just maybe its for that that he was complained about to the RNLI HQ ? maybe ?

 

[prv]

Mind you I suspect that our Govts are having a hand in this somehow, as I understand that the Coastguards were involved in this Island issue.

I don’t really know what you’re getting at here, but the UK government won’t have had any involvement in what the Jersey Coastguard have or haven’t done.

Pete

 

[rafiki_]

I don’t really know what you’re getting at here, but the UK government won’t have had any involvement in what the Jersey Coastguard have or haven’t done.

Pete

Agreed. UK Gov has little or no jurisdiction over the CI's.

 

[superheat6k]

Humm ah, well, I did not mean to suggest that any UK Govt got involved with the RNLI (God forbid) just that in our UK Search and Rescue I understand that the Govt have influenced the role of the Coast Guard and it just might be that the RNLI Management have agreed a sort of 'course of action' in the event of Coast Guard receiving a May Day or Pan Pan call; just maybe the Coxswain preferred due to past experience to respond as he has in the past., and just maybe its for that that he was complained about to the RNLI HQ ? maybe ?

If the Cox'n was reprimanded for responding more rapidly than he was meant to to an emergency I think it is definitely time for the RNLI to shut the shop completely. Let's hope this was not the reason.

 

[Blue Sunray]

If the Cox'n was reprimanded for responding more rapidly than he was meant to to an emergency I think it is definitely time for the RNLI to shut the shop completely. Let's hope this was not the reason.

It wasn't.

 

[superheat6k]

It wasn't.

From what I have read the original complaint against the Cox'n hasn't been fully explained. It is suggested this concerned him allegedly using the Lifeboat to spread ashes, which was shown not to be the case. So what else was awry ?

Anyway I have received a reply to my questions to the RNLI concerning the severe decision to withdraw the boat to the possible danger of the very mariners they purport to stand by to assist. They have listed my email as a complaint. Whereas the reply was very courteous, the answer is very generalised, concerns policy of everyone obeying the rules, but they specifically state they cannot / will not discuss matters concerning individuals.

So the reasons for withdrawal have not been explained in sufficient detail.

They advise they are working with the interested parties to restore the AWB at St Helier as soon as possible.

I am not sure this answers my concerns raised as to why this was such a crisis as it warranted removing the boat, after all whereas the crew may not be available for day to day service, I am sure the crew would turn up if the Maroons were launched. To this end I feel it would have been more effective to appoint a temporary but experienced Cox'n from the Mainland who could have overseen the craft and maintained its standby condition ready should its service be required.

On a separate note I have been kindly invited to meet my local Life boat crew with a view to moving my sponsorship to them instead of or as well as the RNLI.

I do understand the point that resigning my membership although bluntly showing my disapproval, it does all end there, and may not encourage the Institute to review its reportedly heavy handed approach and procedures, not unless there is a mass walk away. It will be interesting to see how other Stations react to this seeming hands on approach the RNLI wants to press top down.