Is technology letting us down

[sailbadthesinner]

When i was a kid i used to watch Space 1999. A vision of us all in space with groovy technology.
Now i know that was sci fi but it has been some years since we set foot on the moon.
We have networked computers so the perverts of the world can unite. But what about boats. GPS has been around a long time and is as far as iam concerned old technology.
there must be a large market of people who out there who sail 2 up. crew being the wife who whilst willing does not want to spend entire time hauling sheets and halyards. Why is there not an all electric boat for the short handed sailor? Surely there is a market for a boat which allows one person to sail it with minimum of effort. This would surely allow more couples to get more out of their boat?
okay the amrine environment is not the ideal place for electronics but the stinkies manage to lots of gizmos so why not us? it just feels that boating has moved forward so verylittle. Obviously this is an attraction for many. but surely if you could market a boat that has the ability for you to trim and tack with minimal effort it would be a seller

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Twister_Ken]

There's nothing like short tacking a big boat for saving your annual gym membership fee.

But seriously, there are electric winches galore but it is generally easier and cheaper to make sure that the boat is equipped with winches that are oversized for the anticipated load, to move from a four part mainsheet to a six, etc.

Most modern boats allow all the sail handling to be done from the cockpit, and modern ropes and low friction sheaves have done a lot to reduce the effort needed to hoist and reef and trim. I was talking yesterday with a pal who is just recommissioning a 44 footer, and has got the latest greatest batten cars on the mainsail. He's not a big lad but he claims he can hoist the main hand-over-hand, and only needs the winch to tension the luff.

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[sailbadthesinner]

agreed but you would still think someone would be pushing forward a bit other than better ropes and winches. and i would point out that some new boat builders fit only the minimum winches required to do the job, same with anchors.

i know it is unfair analogy with the car industyry but do we ever see concept boats?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Jacket]

Take any boat with a self tacking jib, order the electric halliard winches that are on the extras list for most boats, and surely you've got what you're asking for? Fit a bow thruster if its a larger boat.

This is pretty much the approach taken by Wally and some other luxury builders. Sure, all their ropes are hidden, and they use hydraulic rams. You could do this on a smaller yacht quite easily, but I think its not been done because of cost, weight (imagine the momentum of a boam during a gybe if it had a heavy hydraulic ram in it) and the volume of internal space that's taken up by the hydraulic reservoirs.

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[milltech]

I'm not sailor, haven't been since 1975. I've had boats with sails, (not the same thing), and I've windsurfed extensively (not the same thing). So, declaring my ignorance up-front, I always have wondered why a schooner rig was not more popular for short handed cruising than (say) ketch rig. I was only aboard one once, and then in harbour, but it looked like everything self tacked like the main.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
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[Evadne]

I don't think I'm alone in going sailing to get away from some of the trappings of technology for a while.

Every now and then someone comes up with a more efficient rig (from aerorig to that cat with a propellor on it at Bradwell) but if I didn't like cloth sails, ropes and varnish I wouldn't go sailing. I have heard of boats being described as large, over-comfortable or fitted with a bow-thruster or remote-controlled hydraulic winches or whatever, but it is usually made to sound like a criticism.

You can get hydraulic or electric winches, but it seems nobody wants them. If someone buying a new boat wanted to specify them, I'm sure the average boatyard or builder would part them from their cash in order to fit them. A lot of folk seem to have electronic navigation and integrated instrument suites though.

I don't know what the answer is, if any. I try not to get critical of folk who fill their boats with such toys, just because I don't; after all the boat itself is one big toy when all's said and done.


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[philmarks]

Mine's a staysail schooner. 23 tons, !5m+, just gone 2 handed to Lisbon, including Biscay gale. All self tacking, except yankee (genoa in lt airs) and that's on a furler. Superb rig, but not brilliant to windward (although I'm getting better at it); however at my age I try not sail uphill. I suspect cost is the reason why we don't see more schooners - 2 masts, 3 booms, lots of sails....but all small and handy. Very flexible rig, easy to balance.

Alternatively, get a simulator for the PC.....that's all
electronic ;-)

Phil

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[brianhumber]

All sorts of labour saving devices to fit on your roller reefed geny and main craft these days.
However I sail my Barra with just my wife and my mate also sails the Barra with his wife with no problems. You just have to plan a bit further ahead and generally put one more reef in to keep her flatter than you would with a set of gorillas as crew. Biggest strain is pulling up the anchor without a windlass and I will admit to considering fitting one since SHMBO had to help me the other day.

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[tcm]

Re: Is Mrs Sailbad a blimmin spoilsport?

Mrs Salibad has come up with the "weak delicate rose" defence against buying a boat. Which is a load of rubbish. Once you have chosen the right boat you can inform her that you are type-approved for ownership/registration of that and no other, so avoiding further discussion about it. On board, place some small batteries in the recess for the winch handle - electric winches, see? Also, bit of nice carpet with (gasp) underlay in the main cabin will cost about £20. Then first day go out of harbour and once clear of entrance ask she has had enough. Later, hopefully, she may be keen to proceed further.

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Is Mrs Sailbad a blimmin spoilsport?

not at all
mrs sailbad made it qiute clear she will sit on deck looking pretty and pull the odd rope. it is ofcourse implicit that it is in fact far less effort and hassle for me to pull the rope myself rather than rouse her to do it.

in fact i normally need special dispensation to tack the boat if it means that she either has toomve or even worse when she moves back she is in the shade.

i just cannot believe that technology has not moved forward enough for someone to try and mke a labour saving boat at anything other than wally prices.
Lets face it no matter how much we all say oh i like the effort involved in trimming.
if there was a switch that allowed you to watch the genny as you pulled it in and eased the traveller back you would press it. rather than lean,teeth gritted, over a on speed winch.

you yourslef have berated the heads and crappy interiors. as a raggie i accept that but what would be nice would be to know i could have some effort saving above deck. look at all those other halfs who enjoy bits of the sailing and can live with a crappy cabin. but if you could let them sit below with a book and a cup of tea and helm and tack alone when it started to rain it would be a popular feature and umpteen years after man landed on the moon it seems no closer than does a moonbase.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Sybarite]

There is : an Amel Super Maramu. However at 53' its a bit big. They used to do a 30', designed for only 2 people but with all the electric goodies that the big ones had. When it came out about 15 years ago it was selling for about £120k - then !

John

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[themount2]

Re: Is Mrs Sailbad a blimmin spoilsport?

You are obviously still dipping into the honey pot, because you are after a boat that sails herself so you can go below and do "other" things.
Can I take a "watch"?

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Is Mrs Sailbad a blimmin spoilsport?

my other things are reading and checking the charts
mrs sailbad is on deck sunnning herslef or calling for more gin

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Is Mrs Sailbad a blimmin spoilsport?

No need to trouble yourself on account of the gin. Automatic intravenous gin dispensers can be obtained at a very reasonable price from your local NHS hospital. Just talk to an off-duty porter in the pub over the road.

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[Rob_Webb]

tech vs boat comparison

If boating had really advanced as quickly as technology then this is what we might all have today in our sailing:

1. The ability to get from Portsmouth to Yarmouth in 0.23 seconds (if you want)
2. Boat speed of 525kts from 8kts true wind, pointing closer than 1 degree
3. Pick-a-wind options (direction, strength, temperature)
4. Pick-a-crew options (age, sex, temperament)
5. Fuel consumption measured in hours per gallon instead of gallons per hour
6. Pizza delivered to your GPS position in less than 30 mins otherwise its free

The counter-argument might be that our sailing would also involve:
1. Kit that becomes obsolete before the crane has dropped her in the water
2. VHF call-queuing that involves "press 1 for Mayday, 2 for Pan-pan, 3 for Dick-head-style Radio Check" etc
3. Boats (and crews) that suddenly stop without warning as you enter busy entrance to Portsmouth Harbour with ferry in hot pursuit
4. Endless streams of mindless, incoming communications (oh, sorry, we already have that on Ch16 on a summer weekend)
5. Uncontrollable surfing
6. Kit that becomes obsolete between tacks


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[Robin]

Re: Is Mrs Sailbad a blimmin spoilsport?

I know Dehler do some all electric ones with a central command position from which all halyards, reefs etc can be controlled by an electric winch. We looked at a 43' one I think, but I believe they had the same concept available down maybe to 36'-38'? The one we looked at was rejected BECAUSE of the technology, all the lines and control gear were hidden and the thought of sorting it by hand if (when) it went wrong, especially the single power winch, was frightening.

We once witnessed a very big German yacht aground against the outer (floating) wavebreak at Morgat. As the tide dropped it leaned on this concrete floating pontoon, which then moved and allowed it to heel even more. They got away with it luckily but when we asked how they managed such a huge yacht with just 2 people they said 'it is easy, everything is hydraulic'. Except the keel we said?

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[tcm]

Pah: customer let down engineers not v-v

I see your requirement.

But look around and you will see that the most popular 25-45 foot sailing boats are not the most technically whizzbangy ones (like in electrionics), nor the fastest (as in motorbikes).

The big selling saily boatys are the dirt cheap one stripped of all the clever-clever things. Bavaria has even decided that those little gatey things on stb/port beam in the guardrails aren't really needed, so they don't puttem on. This is unfortunately because they have realised that saily types on 25-45 cruising boats get a kick out managing with the bare essentials, are often on charter, won't be on board for more than a few weeks a year, and are generally quite tight gits some of whom actually cite "saving diesel" or "not paying for hotel rooms" as amongst the attractions of cruising under sail. Whereas even people who go camping buy hotshot decent kit and don't cite "saving petrol" as one of the advantages of a walking holiday or "saving rent" as an advantage of camping. On powerboats, "luxury" is a hugely over-used word, sometimes modified as "sheer unadulterated luxury". But I've never seen the word mentioned in a saily boat brochure.

All this means that there won't even be any nice comfy cushions or carpet for starters on sailing boats, and the standard equipment needn't even include a shower pump on some models cos you can jump in the sea. You could come for a whizz out in our boat if you like, but I will warn you that it will put a tin lid on the idea of a sailing boat for ever.

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: tech vs boat comparison

Good effort!

Presumably when the boat locks up in the harbour entrance it is because you have performed "an illegal operation".

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[Mirelle]

see ad in this month\'s YW

someone seems to be about to market a rather good looking boat (from the artist's impression!) that is based on precisely these ideas.

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[bedouin]

Have a look at the Wally yachts some time - in particular Tikatikan (or however you spell that) - also perhaps the Distancia 60.

These are boats that make good use of modern technology without compromising sailing performance. Electric everything, lines well hidden.

Really - considering that sailing has been arround for several thousand years, the progress that has been made in the last 50 years has been phenomenal.

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