PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
'What's that Skip ? Two boys have fallen down the old mineshaft ?! '
Love it and remember it well!
Also my late K9 First Mate was called Skip or affectionately Skippy... maybe that's why Skip grates a bit on me?
W.
Is 'skipper' an insult?
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
Love it and remember it well!
Also my late K9 First Mate was called Skip or affectionately Skippy... maybe that's why Skip grates a bit on me?
W.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Ain't no respect no more.
Things are not what they were. Harbourmasters used to respectfully address me as Skipper or Captain.
Now it's "Oi you!".
Things are not what they were. Harbourmasters used to respectfully address me as Skipper or Captain.
Now it's "Oi you!".
wadget
Well-Known Member
Well I was commenting somebody on else's complaint about how people with rya qualifications are viewed by the crew on a tall ship. All I was saying is that tall ships crew's actually have quite favourable views of yachties compared to the rest of the merchant navy.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
The captain in question did occasionally have her husband in the crew. He was cook.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
I met a vendee globe competitor, you know the sort - planing 60 footer with swing keel. He related how he overtook a small merchant ship while doing 18+ knots. The officer on the ship found it necessary to call him on vhf to tell him 'You are sailing dangerously'. Thereafter whenever he felt the need to go faster his call was 'let's sail dangerously'.
BobPrell
Well-Known Member
How does the Captain address the crew?
I would still be interested in your response to my post #39.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3496072#post3496072
I don't want to sound as if I want constant formality.
In a conversation of any length, I would not expect any name or title to be used on most sentences.
I find it interesting that the democratic americans can sometimes be so particular. Hearing their recruit soldiers say "Sir, Yes, Sir!" makes me squirm.
I would still be interested in your response to my post #39.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3496072#post3496072
I don't want to sound as if I want constant formality.
In a conversation of any length, I would not expect any name or title to be used on most sentences.
I find it interesting that the democratic americans can sometimes be so particular. Hearing their recruit soldiers say "Sir, Yes, Sir!" makes me squirm.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
That made me smile. When I was with a certain unit a few years ago we had a Gunnery Sgt Major working on exchange. The conversation went like this.
Me: Good morning - where are you from?
Gunnery Sgt Major: Sir! I am from Maine, Sir!
Me: You really don't have to call me sir you know. Padre or John would be fine.
Gunnery Sgt Major: Sir! yes sir! Thank you sir! .... uh Padre Sir!
I gave up. It was programmed into him.
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
I believe that West Point was founded by a Prussian soldier who fought for the colonists, one Major von Steuben. Annapolis was originally an offshoot of WP, so the home of the free owes its democratic military traditions to one of Frederick the Great's disciplinarians...... I spent some time with the USN in the 80s, and their submarine officers couldn't get over the familiarity we class ridden Brits allowed our ratings to get away with.
prv
Well-Known Member
At school we used to call teachers "sir". (Not USA rod-up-backside sir-yes-sir though.)
Our housemaster had a daughter about our age, and one of my mates ended up "going out with" her and hence spending a fair bit of time at their house. Mr B said to him "look, you don't need to call me 'sir' when you're round here socially - 'Peter' is fine."
"Thanks sir", he replied.
I don't think he ever did quite get the hang of it. Programmed in, as you say
Pete
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Is it true that officer training schools in the US still allow/encourage 'hazing', i.e. licensed bullying? And how does that compare to Sandhurst, Dartmouth etc?
NealB
Well-Known Member
I'm not into formality and titles. We're all just humans, however important some people like to think themselves. No surprise I didn't follow my Dad into the Merchant Navy.
Which reminds of the first time I heard him swear.
It the mid 60's, I was ten, and we were tidying up the old Hurley Felicity just before a potential purchaser was due to arrive.
The dependable Stuart Turner, of course, refused to start (you could always depend on it for that), and Dad muttered angrily, "Well that's totally ****ed it, hasn't it?"
I was so shocked, I replied, "Yes Sir!".
Which reminds of the first time I heard him swear.
It the mid 60's, I was ten, and we were tidying up the old Hurley Felicity just before a potential purchaser was due to arrive.
The dependable Stuart Turner, of course, refused to start (you could always depend on it for that), and Dad muttered angrily, "Well that's totally ****ed it, hasn't it?"
I was so shocked, I replied, "Yes Sir!".
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
No idea. I left Dartmouth with a sigh of relief in 1969, and the Grey Funnel Line with another in 1990.
Penton Hooker
Well-Known Member
Years and years ago I shunted boats around between Germany & the UK. Often glad to pick up a volunteer crew from a handy military base, folk who fancied a trip back to the UK the hard way. Being unqualified, other than an by experience, I was always referred to as Skipper, even by high ranking officers who were also my senior, and sometimes who had a great deal more experienced than I did. In no way was it pretentious, just their way of saying the buck stops with you! Were I entitled to 'Captain' then no doubt that term would have been used, and I would have expected it, had I earned that title. It's a custom, just as is flying the ensign from the senior position, where's the problem?
I will admit it, the current fashion of using first names rather than sir-names by salespeople jars me off big time! Tele-sales staff who use my first name, grrrrrrrr.
I have to say that I don't like the apparent US custom of a boat owner calling himself Captain, even if he only bought the boat last week!
I will admit it, the current fashion of using first names rather than sir-names by salespeople jars me off big time! Tele-sales staff who use my first name, grrrrrrrr.
I have to say that I don't like the apparent US custom of a boat owner calling himself Captain, even if he only bought the boat last week!
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for Sandhurst, but I have several friends on the staff at Dartmouth. I am sure that inappropriate behaviour occurs from time to time, but the official line is that it is NOT tolerated. Actually there's no place to hide things which are going wrong - so I think on the whole its pretty clean. What are you trying to achieve with bullying anyway? Its completely outlawed in the modern RN (although I am sure that things go wrong sometimes) and how are you going to hide it in the long term? The young officers even get lectures in what is and what isn't appropriate behaviour between themselves and from the DS (Directing Staff) towards them. I used to give the lectures to management of ships, when they went through sea training, which is pretty robust stuff.
There's a big difference between robust training and bullying. Something that many people fail to understand. If you are training people to be prepared for warfare and the most extreme conditions you don't molly coddle them. This doesn't mean that you can bully people and stop treating people fairly and in the right way. Peer pressure might be a valid tool as part of a wider training picture in getting people to perform, but bullying is never acceptable.
I suspect that I will get challenged over this, but I can live with that.
BobPrell
Well-Known Member
Sometime in the mid-1990s I was watching a doco about a tall ships rally/festival.
A group joined a US ship, and another joined a polish ship.
The american guy started right away with bullying his trainees. I could see him just about drooling at the prospect of getting them to sea and right under his thumb.
The polish ship was the opposite, doing everything they could to welcome and settle in their trainees. Every newbie was given a buddy to stow their gear, fit their sea clothing and show them every little thing.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
The trouble is that the Americans know that they are the biggest superpower in the world and in their warped psychology that means that their behaviour MUST be right - because 'that's what's made us great'...
Babylon
Well-Known Member
Is that what we were like?
...before America took the opportunity provided by Germany and Japan to destroy our dominance.
BobPrell
Well-Known Member
Probably to some extent. Nevertheless, there was also something of a feudal principle at work which was that there were mutual obligations between classes. The overlord was supposed to lead the vassals for their benefit as well as his own.
The american attitude is more like it is up to the individual to prosper, and if you don't it's your own fault for not trying hard enough in this wonderful Land of Opportunity.
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snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Well after the empire disappeared the institutions that trained imperial rulers and administrators continued on. I'm talking of course about the English public school system. They had a policy of officially-sanctioned bullying such that it was said ex-public school POWs were able to cope with their circumstances because it was what they were used to from their school days. The system was often parodied by e.g. the Monty Python team.
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
My experience of the public school system n the mid 60s was that things had greatly improved by then, though not perfect - maybe no worse than the effects of cyber and othe kinds of bullying in some state schools today?
On the other hand, when I arrived at Dartmouth in 1968, about the first thing we had to do was make up our beds. The public school types like me found ourselves helping some of the highly intelligent day school guys who were baffled since Mum was no longer available to help!