Is 'skipper' an insult?

snowleopard said:
To be fair, it is a British registered ship and she held at least a master mariner's ticket.

There is generally a strange atmosphere on board in that 'amateurs' are regarded with overt contempt by the professional crew. The able-bodied crew members, despite being essential to the running of the ship, are considered a nuisance, scorn being specially reserved for anyone with an RYA ticket.
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I think I know who you mean - she was the Skipper (oops, sorry, Master, no, Captain) on the Stavros the first time I went sailing with the STA (now TSYT) on Stavros 10 years ago.
I think she moved to the JST soon after.
To giver her due credit, she can certainly handle her rum..... :) - a few of us were invited (ok, gate crashed, as we wanted to have a look around) on board the windjammer 'Mandalay' who was next to us on the dock in St Georges, Grenada, and the Mandalay skipper (captain) poured very liberal libations of rum for all of us, including our Stavros Captain - and while some crew were not well ferrets the next morning, our Captain was all ready to leave, bright and early.

Re the contempt by the permanent crew for 'amateurs' - that is just gob-smacking.
Did they treat both the voluntary crew and the paying voyage crew like this?
It rather begs the question why they are sailing on the lovely JST ships in the first place.
 
Years ago I had a grumpy Isle of Lewis 'Captain' on a supply vessel. At the the time we had a new AB who was on my watch and he greeted the Captain "Evening Skipper"; the Captain replied in a really angry temper (he hated being called Skipper) you will call me Captain not Skipper: understand!

The AB replied "No you will call me Captain as I hold the Queens Commision do you (Army short service commision) I will call you Master if you wish"? I quietly laughed my ass off in the corner of the wheelhouse, the AB got sacked!

So I guess MN = Master, RN = Captain if you hold the rank! Skipper - well that's Holywood wartime movie stuff and just offensive.

Master it is then!
 
maxi77 said:
Skipper is generically a term for the person in charge of a vessel that does not require by law a fully qualified master, ie fishing boats had skippers, coasters had masters. Modern usage has blurred this somewhat but if she was a qualified master she was entitle to that form of address, and may well have taken offence at a title which suggested she was less qualified.
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Sorry mate FVs over 15m need certified officers and engineers, always have done. So they are Masters as well not skippers.
 
Bajansailor said:
I think I know who you mean - she was the Skipper (oops, sorry, Master, no, Captain) on the Stavros the first time I went sailing with the STA (now TSYT) on Stavros 10 years ago.
I think she moved to the JST soon after.
To giver her due credit, she can certainly handle her rum..... :) - a few of us were invited (ok, gate crashed, as we wanted to have a look around) on board the windjammer 'Mandalay' who was next to us on the dock in St Georges, Grenada, and the Mandalay skipper (captain) poured very liberal libations of rum for all of us, including our Stavros Captain - and while some crew were not well ferrets the next morning, our Captain was all ready to leave, bright and early.

Re the contempt by the permanent crew for 'amateurs' - that is just gob-smacking.
Did they treat both the voluntary crew and the paying voyage crew like this?
It rather begs the question why they are sailing on the lovely JST ships in the first place.
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If we talking about who I think we are then she has an Extra Masters ticket as well. She's ok really; although I've never sailed with her, only met her in port.
 
snowleopard said:
There is generally a strange atmosphere on board in that 'amateurs' are regarded with overt contempt by the professional crew. The able-bodied crew members, despite being essential to the running of the ship, are considered a nuisance, scorn being specially reserved for anyone with an RYA ticket.
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I think alot of the problem is that the ship is a magnet for numpties in yachts who come way to close for a look which causes stress and concern for professional crew who like to maintain a 1nm cpa wherever possible. Another issue particularly towards those on board with RYA tickets is that some of them often think they know better than qualified deck officers. Believe me navigating a square rigger is hard enough without someone who did a dayskipper course a few years ago offering advice.

And you should here what some crews on larger cargo ships think about yachts. I once took over the watch from a far eastern third mate on a container ship. We were about 50 miles offshore and overtaking a yacht in reasonably tame conditions. He felt the need to tell me that the crew of the yacht were stupid and shouldn't be out this far in such a small boat. Now this yacht was about 50 foot long so not exactly small for its location. But that's just the attitude some people have towards yachts.
 
Ariadne said:
If we talking about who I think we are then she has an Extra Masters ticket as well. She's ok really; although I've never sailed with her, only met her in port.
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Well its going to be one of two people I think I know who it is but it doesn't really matter. They are both brilliant captains who have earnt the title. They don't go around expecting everyone to call them captain or ma'm, they just don't want to be compared to a yacht skipper or a fisherman.
 
Bajansailor said:
.... Re the contempt by the permanent crew for 'amateurs' - that is just gob-smacking.
Did they treat both the voluntary crew and the paying voyage crew like this?
It rather begs the question why they are sailing on the lovely JST ships in the first place.
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I think people have to make their own minds up about this based on experience coloured by their own outlook on life. I sailed professionally for quite a few years in sail training and found that the larger vessels had more than one would expect of arrogant people. I was back then, and I am still, a firm believer in the skills that the RYA system can transfer, if properly taught.

I did on some occasion feel that I was not considered worthy by the arrogant ones, even though I could sail rings round them, navigate my yacht accurately and confidently and handle her in the most demanding of occasions. In my sailing career I considered transferring over to Tall Ships but the arrogant ones put me off. More importantly, I realised that I did not have the personality to learn the ropes under the arrogant ones and it would not have worked out - I am more a free booter type of person.

Having said that, I have got monumentally drunk and had the best laughs ever with some of them in the ports of call and would not disrespect their skills or personalities based on my perceptions; just a different way of sailing, the tall ship lark.
 
During WW2 the 'captains, of the Trawler Minesweepers in the RN Patrol Service were addressed as Skipper.and frequently maintained discipline with their fists.
Often they had commanded the trawlers in peacetime.
 
PilotWolf said:
Personally prefer first name from crew and client and address them the same. But in general anything polite is acceptable. Do hate 'Skip' though!

W.
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'What's that Skip ? Two boys have fallen down the old mineshaft ?! '

200px-Skippy-dvd.jpg
 
wadget said:
And you should here what some crews on larger cargo ships think about yachts. I once took over the watch from a far eastern third mate on a container ship. We were about 50 miles offshore and overtaking a yacht in reasonably tame conditions. He felt the need to tell me that the crew of the yacht were stupid and shouldn't be out this far in such a small boat. Now this yacht was about 50 foot long so not exactly small for its location. But that's just the attitude some people have towards yachts.
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I don't uderstand why should a yachstman care any more about what a merchant navy officer thinks of him than a motorist should care what a lorry driver thinks of him.

I was a merchant navy officer and I have shipped with people I wouldn't trust in a paddle-boat on a park lake. Conversely, the MN has produced skilled yachtsmen such as Robin Knox-Johnson.

It's the man that matters not the job title.
 
They called him skip because he was full of ...

When skipper of a sail training vessel (only 26 tonnes before you ask) in the USA I was always called Captain - and it made my skin creep a bit; probably because I work for RN Captains and Commodores and Admirals etc.

In Boston they gave me a 'so many gun salute' as I marched up the main street to a reception in the Civic Hall. Now that was really embarrassing!

I don't get too worked up with whatever people say so long as they are polite. People are perfectly entitles to state a preference - but to get angry and worked up about it betrays rather more about them than they realise.
 
You need four rings to be called a Captain. Somebody in charge of a vessel with less would be The Master or Skipper. All would be The Old Man. But never to their face. His wife was the Old Woman.... Dont know how this works when a femail capt. has her husband onboard....
 
prr said:
You need four rings to be called a Captain. Somebody in charge of a vessel with less would be The Master or Skipper. All would be The Old Man. But never to their face. His wife was the Old Woman.... Dont know how this works when a femail capt. has her husband onboard....
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The Old Woman's Man ?
 
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