Is it viable to extend an anchor chain

[Neeves]

Somewhat larger than you will be needing I think ACCO/Peerless are a USA company, although their equipment is made in Taiwan I think. They do not seem to be represented in UK.

Peerless are, the USA's biggest chain maker, now owned by Kito, a Japanese lifting company who also own a chain maker in Italy (Kito Italy who make some state of the art lifting chain and components, it was called Weissenfels?) and one in Oz, PWB. They, Kito, have a central warehouse in Germany where they were, are, stocking Peerless metric chain - contact Peerless International office in America.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

It does indeed, I have yet to figure if there is an alternative. I usually pull the chain by hand but the gypsy does help if I take a few seconds break. While anchoring, the gypsy would only see the 8mm part as I never let out less than 5m.

I have to ask - why do you want to add 15m of 12mm chain to a rode composed of 8mm chain - what are the benefits?


We may be talking at cross purposes but the gypsy is the device that 'grips' the chain at the windlass - its the device with pockets into which the individual links fit. Gypsies, also called chain wheels (I think by Americans) are chain size specific. If the gypsy does not 'see' the 12mm chain - why do you want it.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

i always cut open one side of a link with a hacksaw ,then put it in a vice and open up the now cut link with a large adjustable spanner, open opposite sides at 45 degrees to each other,,untill you have a gap big enough to put the first links of the 2 chains you are joining into,then close the open link with the spanner again,then fully weld with a welder(MIG if possible) ,wire brush then coat weld with galvanising spray.
super strong

You say 'super strong' - you have measured it?

Most chain now is Proof Tested to twice WLL - it seems to defeat the object of the exercise if you introduce 2 links (I think you suggest cutting 2 links?) that are untested - when Crosby offer a simple 'C' link to the exact same job, needing no heat, no equipment (other than a big hammer), costing peanuts, proven by a number of members here and rated.

Jonathan

 

[GTom]

I have to ask - why do you want to add 15m of 12mm chain to a rode composed of 8mm chain - what are the benefits?


We may be talking at cross purposes but the gypsy is the device that 'grips' the chain at the windlass - its the device with pockets into which the individual links fit. Gypsies, also called chain wheels (I think by Americans) are chain size specific. If the gypsy does not 'see' the 12mm chain - why do you want it.

Jonathan

5m or 15feet studlink. Because it is heavier, just like bottom chain for a mooring.

 

[Neeves]

5m or 15feet studlink. Because it is heavier, just like bottom chain for a mooring.

I'm not sure why you want a portable mooring when you could simply use a decent anchor and normal anchoring gear. You certainly don't need 12mm chain added to an 8mm rode - unless you retrieve by hand and need exercise - and even then there are easier ways to stay fit.

Try reading these

How to: Dealing with Snatch Loads in an Anchorage

Anchor Snubber Tips

The art of snubbing, in the nicest possible way - MySailing.com.au

Jonathan

 

[atol]

You say 'super strong' - you have measured it?

Most chain now is Proof Tested to twice WLL - it seems to defeat the object of the exercise if you introduce 2 links (I think you suggest cutting 2 links?) that are untested - when Crosby offer a simple 'C' link to the exact same job, needing no heat, no equipment (other than a big hammer), costing peanuts, proven by a number of members here and rated.

Jonathan

you cut and weld a single link,worked fine on 2 circumnavigations anchoring 95% of the time when stopped,mostly in coral and exposed to trade winds

 

[Refueler]

My current chain, from a British manufacturer Griff Ltd, cost me around £300 for a single length of 65 metres with enlarged links at each end. My boat is insured for £22,500. The chain cost less than 1.5% of the value of the boat; and that's just the monetary value. Why on earth would I want to cut corners by having some bodged-up anchor cable when I can have the proper thing for such a small amount? The price of half a dozen dinners. It makes no sense to me at all.

Maybe you should ask to go on a ship sometime and have a look at a ships anchor chain. That has lugless joining shackles at each 90ft (15 fathoms) .... imagine a 300,000 tonne DWT vessel anchored with 7 or 8 shackles out .............

 

[Neeves]

you cut and weld a single link,worked fine on 2 circumnavigations anchoring 95% of the time when stopped,mostly in coral and exposed to trade winds

I'd be concerned at your practice being adopted as a reliable and dependable recommendation. How is the average owner able to judge the capabilities of the average welder and even know what technique he might use to weld the chain. I'd also wonder what the view might be of anh insurance company.

The 'C' link alternative seems so much less risky. Obviously if you are Lloyds cerktieid welder - no issues.

Jonathan

 

[atol]

I'd be concerned at your practice being adopted as a reliable and dependable recommendation. How is the average owner able to judge the capabilities of the average welder and even know what technique he might use to weld the chain. I'd also wonder what the view might be of anh insurance company.

The 'C' link alternative seems so much less risky. Obviously if you are Lloyds cerktieid welder - no issues.

Jonathan

i guess if you don't have access to a welder on your boat then a crosby clamp is your best option

 

[Chris_Robb]

Is there any skill involved in peening or is it just a matter of hammering it till it bells out?

Straight forward, but beware - there are many "chinese" copies said to be forged. If they hammer together easily, then they are not the real mccoy! They really take some hammering! -

 

[Neeves]

Straight forward, but beware - there are many "chinese" copies said to be forged. If they hammer together easily, then they are not the real mccoy! They really take some hammering! -

Agree,

There is a correlation between hardness and tensile strength

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

On accessing Crosby 'C' links and their shackles

Crosby recently, about 12 months ago now, bought Gunnebo the Swedish manufacturer of lifting chains (and chain for aquaculture). If Gunnebo operate in the UK they may start to stock some Crosby components (seems logical to me). Gunnebo might be a more convenient source for Crosby than Tecni, in the UK (whom I have used in the past).

I don't know but Gunnebo might market a galvanised G30, or G40 metric chain of a 6mm - 12mm size (they certainly service the aquaculture industry.

Gunnebo make a true galvanised G80 metric short link chain - be warned the wire size, from which the chain is made, is 10% bigger than standard, so 8.8mm NOT 8mm. I don't know if this link size will fit a standard gypsy. So if you follow through check (and check again!)

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

We may be talking at cross purposes but the gypsy is the device that 'grips' the chain at the windlass - its the device with pockets into which the individual links fit. Gypsies, also called chain wheels (I think by Americans) are chain size specific. If the gypsy does not 'see' the 12mm chain - why do you want it.

Jonathan

I wouldn't have a gypsy on my boat for no love of money , the buggers nick everything including the chain .....
Nice to see you about old friend ....
On a serious note I been using C link for god know how many year , Cosby links for quite a lot of years but ashame to admin chandelier brought before I knew better , never had a problem with one ,
Hope to lockdown wasn't as bad your end as it was for some of us Jonathan.

 

[GTom]

I'm not sure why you want a portable mooring when you could simply use a decent anchor and normal anchoring gear. You certainly don't need 12mm chain added to an 8mm rode - unless you retrieve by hand and need exercise - and even then there are easier ways to stay fit.

Try reading these
How to: Dealing with Snatch Loads in an Anchorage
Anchor Snubber Tips
The art of snubbing, in the nicest possible way - MySailing.com.au
Jonathan

Good reading, thank you! My other idea was to use multiple kellets as a single one doesn't seem to do much: Kellets or Anchor Angels / Sentinels: Uses and Applications
OTOH, when it comes to replace my chain, I'll probably just go with a single 10mm, which weighs about 80% more than the original 8mm chain.

 

[Neeves]

I wouldn't have a gypsy on my boat for no love of money , the buggers nick everything including the chain .....
Nice to see you about old friend ....
On a serious note I been using C link for god know how many year , Cosby links for quite a lot of years but ashame to admin chandelier brought before I knew better , never had a problem with one ,
Hope to lockdown wasn't as bad your end as it was for some of us Jonathan.

I think there are many, like you Vic, who have used an unnamed 'C' link without issue (in the same way there are many who use unnamed shackles without issue). Choice often comes down to ease of access. But if you are not in urgent need of 'whatever' paying the extra peanuts is worth it for piece of mind. I have never actually heard of a 'C' link failure - but I have heard of unnamed shackles failing, simply breaking or distorting so excessively the pin pulled out of the eye.

Mind you as one or two people do take note of what I say I do tend to be a bit dogmatic.

Now - a bit of drift, apologies to the OP.

Covid here has been well managed. We have had a few well publicised disasters, Ruby Princess, the Anglian aged care facility and the current new hot spots in Melbourne but with a death toll of, I think, 104 - we have been lucky.. Large parts of Melbourne have just gone back into lockdown but the rest of the country is slowly opening up. Sailing here (New South Wales) never stopped though we were restricted to New South Wales as the border to Queensland was closed - but that ends on the 10th. Its a bit late for the grey nomads to escape the cold of a southern winter - but no-one really suffers. We did have travel restrictions and marinas closed - so many could not sail - but we live close to the water and keep Josepheline on a swing mooring and it was very pleasant in the early winter (before nights got down to single digits) to get out in splendid solitude (and we caught lots of crabs ). What has been odd is that no-one could travel internationally, arrivals had 15 day forced quarantine, - it was like the good old days when you waved goodbye to the mother country - knowing you would never return! It sounds as if international travel can be forgotten for the maybe the next 12 months.

The marine industry has been hard hit as all the boat shows were cancelled, saving money but curtailing sales . I note that webinars are suddenly very common.

So - all fine here

Take care Vic, don't let your guard down. Its still out there and will be there for months.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

Neeves mentions shackle failure ...............

Its well worth noting that a shackle needs to be sized and right shape for the job. Example ... my mooring at Farlington Marshes had a large BOW shackle bewteen block and riser. During storm conditions - my Snapdragon 23 snapped the bow shackle opening it out ... luckily the boat went into the marshes instead of against the concrete wall.
Why ?
The bow shackle had turned and weight came on it in a direction that was not designed for.
If the shackle had been a correct D shackle sized for the job that would not turn - its unlikely it would have broken.

That bow shackle was not a cheap version. I used to keep it to show people the forces that we can have on moorings ..