Maatsuyker
New member
Is it possible to fit a windvane to a yacht with a fold down swim platform?
Is it possible?
- Thread starter Maatsuyker
- Start date
Stingo
Well-known member
Probably, but with some modifications to the platform
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
Yes, is the answer, but it will depend on the design of the stern and drop down platform,
For example, Monitor have a swing gate model that opens, see pictures in link.
Swing Gate | scanmar
For example, Monitor have a swing gate model that opens, see pictures in link.
Swing Gate | scanmar
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Yes my friend has a Hanse 311 with a transom step. He has elderly parents so had a swing bracket made for his wind vane. This makes it easier for them to get off via the stern
You can just see the top of the frame in this picture. Unfortunately I did not get the whole part. But it is located on a hinge one side & a pin/hinge fixing the other
You can see the step hinge lower down.
You can just see the top of the frame in this picture. Unfortunately I did not get the whole part. But it is located on a hinge one side & a pin/hinge fixing the other
You can see the step hinge lower down.
Last edited:
capnsensible
Well-known member
Yes. A friend has a Hanse 44. Hydrovane fitted on port side of stern. The company has good advice about off centre mounting.
Plus I'm a hydrovane fan, used them on several yachts including my own. Dogs doo dahs
Plus I'm a hydrovane fan, used them on several yachts including my own. Dogs doo dahs
mjcoon
Well-known member
On cockpit arch?
BobnLesley
Well-known member
I've also seen a few which are set-up to swing clear of the stern access route when at anchor, though one at least left me very concerned as to the strength of the arrangement they'd utilised; the loads that those things have to cope with in big seas can be massive! I would also suggest giving thought to alternative access: On a couple of those that I've seen that stern platform/ladder was the only way to reboard the boat; in an emergency, particularly offshore, you may well not have the time/ability to get your vane out of the way and safely secured to allow such access.
Kelpie
Well-known member
Have seen plenty of Hydrovanes fitted to one side of fold down bathing platforms. I was concerned about mine being ~600mm offset and then I saw one of the back of a very wide AWB and realised I had nothing to worry about.
dunedin
Well-known member
It will depend a lot on the boat - and in particular how wide the fold down bit is and whether there is much transom space outside of it.
The bad news is that I doubt if any fold down platform would be able to take the lateral loads of a wind vane, hence unless a narrow fold down section then this could be very tricky.
The good news is that any boat recent enough to have a wide fold down transom is likely to have been designed for (and most likely already have) a modern below decks ram autopilot.
And it should be feasible on most boats to fit a mount for a Watt&Sea or similar water driven generator.
Realistically, on any modern boat over about 35 foot a good modern ram autopilot with gyro sensor, plus a water driven generator, is a much better solution than a windvane.
Specifically:
- a modern autopilot can steer a boat under sail much better than a wind vane - indeed, the best ones are so good that many racing rules ban them on fully crewed yacht races to give the humans a chance #
- an electronic autopilot is needed anyway to use when motoring
- no clumsy metalwork on the stern to get in the way for stern to berthing, get damaged in harbour, or get charged marina fees on (the Watt&Sea lifts off quickly)
- generally a cheaper solution (as need autopilot for motoring anyway)
- arguably the electronic autopilots are now more reliable than windvanes (quite a few of these failed in GGR for example, and from ARC experience)
- spares are smaller and easier to carry for an electronic autopilot - indeed on many boats for serious offshore work can have a second system pre-installed just needing to drop the ram onto a pin to switch over
# If previous experience is with tiller or wheel pilots then they are very different - though as Concerto and others have demonstrated, recent tiller pilots can cope with a lot of tough going.
And if you have never adjusted your autopilot settings for the conditions then you need to read the manual and get better value from your autopilot
IMHO, like cotton sails, spinning Seafarer echo sounders, RDF sets, non-self tailing winches etc, wind vanes were a brilliant solution for their time (mid-60s onwards) but now overtaken by better solutions.
(Duck for cover before aged old salts splutter over their G&Ts
)Daydream believer
Well-known member
I have a Raymarine AV100. I NEED the Aries as a back up, because the autopilot is not reliable in my 31 ft yacht. In fact in certain conditions it is a death trap waiting to happen.
dunedin
Well-known member
See references to over 35 foot, folding sterns and below deck autopilots, specifically excluding tiller and wheel pilots from my comments. I believe you have a tiller pilot.
Even so I wonder why see your your tiller pilot as a "death trap" and whether it could be improved.
Kelpie
Well-known member
I agree that a windvane is not essential on ocean crossings, but I like to have one. Silent, uses no power, completely independent of the boat's electrical systems, provides a backup rudder.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I would not be surprised if the wheel version is similar.
This is just one such situation & first happened en route from Le Havre to Cherbourg with frighteningly regularity. It happened a number of times on my round UK trips & actually put me aground in very light wind when it was too light to steer, near inverness, whereby I lost my rudder.
When there is a quartering sea of say 2M plus & winds of F5 & above the yacht is on a broad reach. It surfs down the wave diagonally. Regularly touching 7kts, or more, with 1 or 2 reefs.
I sail single handed & often have to go below .
If I am helming, I can anticipate when the boat wants to start surfing & stop any desire to round up. An autopilot does not react fast enough, because it does not "anticipate", regardless of settings. I have tried them all.
If I go below & the boat rounds up on one of these "surfs" it can go 70 degrees off course.
At this point the autopilot cuts out leaving the tiller hard over. After a few moments the wave passes through & the boat with the tiller now hard over starts to turn rapidly the other way. This can lead to a crash gybe. I can rarely get from below to the tiller in the time it takes for me to realise the autopilot has stopped working.
It would not surprise me if the wheel version does similar.
I have already burnt one ram out, possibly due to having it set to be too fast.
With my aries the boat does go off coarse but actually less so as it is more powerfull. Plus it never cuts out. So once in the broached situation it will bring the boat back on course but not past that course.
I have a large vane on it & it does work very well, except for dead down wind.
One cannot "trim" the sails any more than 2 reefs & a self tacking jib so that option is out.
This is just one such situation & first happened en route from Le Havre to Cherbourg with frighteningly regularity. It happened a number of times on my round UK trips & actually put me aground in very light wind when it was too light to steer, near inverness, whereby I lost my rudder.
When there is a quartering sea of say 2M plus & winds of F5 & above the yacht is on a broad reach. It surfs down the wave diagonally. Regularly touching 7kts, or more, with 1 or 2 reefs.
I sail single handed & often have to go below .
If I am helming, I can anticipate when the boat wants to start surfing & stop any desire to round up. An autopilot does not react fast enough, because it does not "anticipate", regardless of settings. I have tried them all.
If I go below & the boat rounds up on one of these "surfs" it can go 70 degrees off course.
At this point the autopilot cuts out leaving the tiller hard over. After a few moments the wave passes through & the boat with the tiller now hard over starts to turn rapidly the other way. This can lead to a crash gybe. I can rarely get from below to the tiller in the time it takes for me to realise the autopilot has stopped working.
It would not surprise me if the wheel version does similar.
I have already burnt one ram out, possibly due to having it set to be too fast.
With my aries the boat does go off coarse but actually less so as it is more powerfull. Plus it never cuts out. So once in the broached situation it will bring the boat back on course but not past that course.
I have a large vane on it & it does work very well, except for dead down wind.
One cannot "trim" the sails any more than 2 reefs & a self tacking jib so that option is out.
dunedin
Well-known member
That is your experience of a TILLER pilot. I have done at least 10,000 miles on our below decks autopilot, over 2,000 miles this year alone, and happy to trust it downwind in waves - just up the response level to 5. So far never gybed or spun out (except when dumb human flicks to Standby instead of Auto!)
And my comments also mentioned modern autopilots with gyro - the software on modern units is much better than older ones.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
With due respect , your post also referred to Concerto, which has a tiller. Concerto is less than 35 ft. My earlier post does show a windvane fitted over a drop down stern
I do, however, accept that it would probably be difficult on some of the wide sterned craft. But not all are so built.
So not really a thread drift at all I think
doug748
Well-known member
The silence is nice plus they are fascinating to watch, though I admit I am easily amused.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
This is my monitor wind vane on my fold down aft steps
With the aft steps open
With the wind vane mounted on aft gate open to allow access to aft steps
Post a pic of your fold down swim platform
Daydream believer
Well-known member
A major task stripping the wind vane down first though, so not really a practical method for general use. Not idea for stern too berthing either. Or at least those are my first impressions. Perhaps I have missunderstood.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Yes but this is why I hinges my wind vane so I can stern moor and use the aft steps.
My home mooring does have a side jetty which I can use normally to get on and off then boat,
The hinge is both side so I can hinge either way, This also allows me to remove the self steering completely by removing both hinge pins and lift off the gear with the blocks on my solar arch.
As can be seem tipping the steps will allow the self steering into the water but being stainless steel no real issue for a short time.
With the elf steering gear sweng out of the way I can attach and outboard to the at of the steps in and emergency or boarding steps below the water line to allow easier access when swimming.
Taga test fitting
If I remove the wind vane I have a gate that fits in place of the wind vane to make the stern steps safer at sea
Stern moored with additional access platform and gate open
This is stern moored with wind vane in place and my dive ladder on the taga for easy access to solar panels . This ladder can also be located on the steps for easer access from the water. They can also be used on the bow pulpit for bow access and at the max beam for access from side of boat in choppy conditions
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
That looks like a lot of weight right aft that could cause significant pitching.
