bigman1
Well-Known Member
Is it legal to use a chinese dual band ham transceiver on vhf at sea in Uk waters? They seem to be very well built at a great price.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Is it legal?
- Thread starter bigman1
- Start date
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
Whats the website ?
50 years ago people would go out and buy boats without any knowledge of regulations (Nothings changed) but in those days Boat Magazines were not as plentiful or informative as they are now, I certainly dont remember PBO having pages and pages of advertisements of Ship to Shore Radios, presumably because they were so expensive or bought by commercial boats.
I wonder then how many people like me had the bright idea of fitting an WW2 ex-Army Radio (called a 19 set Advertised in the Amateur Radio Magazines) I seem to remember they were £9 each.
After fitting it I tried it out and from the middle of Manchester, on the right frequency I found myself talking to a boat in Dublin Harbour.
Probably totally illegal.
Certainly a Dual Band Transceiver would make a useful addition to the stuff in my boat.
50 years ago people would go out and buy boats without any knowledge of regulations (Nothings changed) but in those days Boat Magazines were not as plentiful or informative as they are now, I certainly dont remember PBO having pages and pages of advertisements of Ship to Shore Radios, presumably because they were so expensive or bought by commercial boats.
I wonder then how many people like me had the bright idea of fitting an WW2 ex-Army Radio (called a 19 set Advertised in the Amateur Radio Magazines) I seem to remember they were £9 each.
After fitting it I tried it out and from the middle of Manchester, on the right frequency I found myself talking to a boat in Dublin Harbour.
Probably totally illegal.
Certainly a Dual Band Transceiver would make a useful addition to the stuff in my boat.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Technically illegal - http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra364.htm
Compliant with the requirements of either the Marine Equipment Directive (MED), the Radio & Telecommunications Terminal Equipment Directive or Nationally Type approved.
.... Maritime radio exists primarily for the safety of human life and vessels at sea. It is vital that interference is avoided.
Tough those little baofeng U5r 7 U3R radios are great, how clean a signal they put out is unknown. A very cheap and low power way to recieve but maybe not such a good idea to transmit.
Compliant with the requirements of either the Marine Equipment Directive (MED), the Radio & Telecommunications Terminal Equipment Directive or Nationally Type approved.
.... Maritime radio exists primarily for the safety of human life and vessels at sea. It is vital that interference is avoided.
Tough those little baofeng U5r 7 U3R radios are great, how clean a signal they put out is unknown. A very cheap and low power way to recieve but maybe not such a good idea to transmit.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Intrigued by this I googled "dual band vhf transceiver". It seems that Amazon (and others) sell vhf / uhf amateur band transceivers for as low as £25 compared to £110 for a Yaesu. If they are being sold by Amazon UK, is there an implication that they UK Type Approval?
Is your question related to the licensing of the equipment or the operator.
Please let us know if/what you buy. I finally sold two Trio TR2300s on ebay a few years ago. Nostaligia isn't what it was!
prv
Well-Known Member
I would guess it's a similar situation to people using HF / SSB ham transmitters on the marine bands. The ham kit itself is not permitted under your maritime license because it's not type approved for that purpose. And your ham license (if you have one) allows you to use the kit but not the marine frequencies.
There is some logic to at least the first part of that - ham kit is very flexible in terms of modes and frequencies, much more so than just dialling up ch16 or ch12 on a channelised marine VHF. Someone with only basic radio knowledge (VHF operator's cert) could accidentally set it up to do things they shouldn't rather than (presumably their intention) mimicking a marine VHF. Hams study this stuff and are presumed to be able to get it right - but they're only allowed within their own bands.
In a logical world, if you had both a ham license (showing you can work the kit responsibly) and a ship radio license and certificate (showing you're allowed on the marine bands) then you should be able to combine them to do this. But the license wording doesn't actually work like that.
Pete
There is some logic to at least the first part of that - ham kit is very flexible in terms of modes and frequencies, much more so than just dialling up ch16 or ch12 on a channelised marine VHF. Someone with only basic radio knowledge (VHF operator's cert) could accidentally set it up to do things they shouldn't rather than (presumably their intention) mimicking a marine VHF. Hams study this stuff and are presumed to be able to get it right - but they're only allowed within their own bands.
In a logical world, if you had both a ham license (showing you can work the kit responsibly) and a ship radio license and certificate (showing you're allowed on the marine bands) then you should be able to combine them to do this. But the license wording doesn't actually work like that.
Pete
prv
Well-Known Member
Are they being sold by Amazon, or by a small trader through the Amazon Marketplace?
Pete
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
Technically it likely is illegal. It certainly would be without a ham licence. And without registering the set on your ships licence. I think you have to be pragmatic these days - almost anything is illegal if plod want to have you up for something. But there is very little if any real life enforcement so I would happily use one such radio. It would have the advantage of being able to listen in to channel 0 . A pal already does this.
In short its about as illegal as speeding which you likely do every day.
prv
Well-Known Member
All that means is ticking the box to say "VHF Portable: 1". You don't specify anything about the radio itself.
The bigger problem is that he'd be breaching section nine of the terms of his license:
c) is not applicable due to age, a) and d) are highly unlikely in a non-maritime radio, and I haven't looked into b) but I doubt that will apply either.
Agree
Just make sure you have the thing set up properly so it works like a marine VHF.
Pete
jdc
Well-Known Member
If it's not CE marked it's illegal to import or sell it in the EU. To get CE marking it must have passed a number of tests (some can be self-certified, but that still means it has to have been tested and pass). In particular it must have passed the RTTE directive as mentioned above.
Your own licence makes no difference and you should not use such kit unless you have applied to Ofcom for a temporary derogation for development purposes (which won't be granted for a mature standard like marine VHF). As an amateur you are allowed to make things yourself for the purpose of experiment (which is the purpose of an amateur licence anyway), but that's not importing and selling a finished product.
(btw, In case this looks pessimistic, I have been the boss of companies making radio equipment - and had numerous meetings with our production manager who always told me off for being too cavalier!)
Your own licence makes no difference and you should not use such kit unless you have applied to Ofcom for a temporary derogation for development purposes (which won't be granted for a mature standard like marine VHF). As an amateur you are allowed to make things yourself for the purpose of experiment (which is the purpose of an amateur licence anyway), but that's not importing and selling a finished product.
(btw, In case this looks pessimistic, I have been the boss of companies making radio equipment - and had numerous meetings with our production manager who always told me off for being too cavalier!)
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
It is illegal to use a set that doesn't have doesn't have approval for use in Europe but nobody checks. Hams won't talk to you unless you have a ham licence and call sign. Marine also requires a licence and call sign except in America. A ship licence is also required from the MCA.
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
I bet your batteries took a hammering from the power supply, the 19 set was designed for tanks. Lots of Gov surplus stuff around in those days, 18 & 38 portable sets and of course the aircraft T1154 & R1155. We had a GPO DF van looking for us one time as several of us had illegal sets in school days - happy times.
Alpha22
Well-Known Member
There is another huge issue....
To operate a marine VHF on your boat, part of the licence relates to the construction of the radio in use and its capabilities. Type approval or something like that.
An amateur dual band set is capable of many things that would break the marine VHF licence agreement, so is already not permitted, even before you turn it on!
But practically speaking, having one on-board is not illegal, even if it has the channels programmed in. Using it would be.
But again, practically speaking, if the chips were down, the marine VHF none functioning, in a distress situation.... wrong or not, I would be on channel 16 on my amateur hand held!!! Wouldn't you???
To operate a marine VHF on your boat, part of the licence relates to the construction of the radio in use and its capabilities. Type approval or something like that.
An amateur dual band set is capable of many things that would break the marine VHF licence agreement, so is already not permitted, even before you turn it on!
But practically speaking, having one on-board is not illegal, even if it has the channels programmed in. Using it would be.
But again, practically speaking, if the chips were down, the marine VHF none functioning, in a distress situation.... wrong or not, I would be on channel 16 on my amateur hand held!!! Wouldn't you???
oldsaltoz
Well-Known Member
I suspect the real problem and the reasons for the legislation is based on the signal strength generated.
When fishing of the N/West coast of Australia all you can receive is Indonesian fisherman because they transmitting at well over 20 watts.
Imagine the problems this would create if your distress call was Blocked by some moron talking endlessly to another moron.
Both of them 300 miles apart.
Good luck and fair winds.
Not sure what what strength your UK signals are to meet the requirements, but London to brick the Chinese jobs are well over it making them illegal.
Good luck and fair winds.
When fishing of the N/West coast of Australia all you can receive is Indonesian fisherman because they transmitting at well over 20 watts.
Imagine the problems this would create if your distress call was Blocked by some moron talking endlessly to another moron.
Both of them 300 miles apart.
Good luck and fair winds.
Not sure what what strength your UK signals are to meet the requirements, but London to brick the Chinese jobs are well over it making them illegal.
Good luck and fair winds.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Wow, can't compete with that but I started listening to hf with an AR88. Happy times indeed.
Not sure if this thread has taken a twist with its references to marine band. I'd assumed (incorrectly?) that the OP had an amateur license and was asking about Chinese transceivers, type approval et al. It never ceases to amaze me that we can all interpret the same words so differently.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>An amateur dual band set is capable of many things that would break the marine VHF licence agreement, so is already not permitted, even before you turn it on!
If it is dual band (upper and lower side band) then it will have marine frequencies as well as Ham. It needs an SSB licence not VHF.
>When fishing of the N/West coast of Australia all you can receive is Indonesian fisherman because they transmitting at well over 20 watts.
Marine SSB's are 150 watts, VHF's are 25 and handheld 5.
As I said any radio that's not certified can be used because nobody checks. We had an Icom700 SSB that wasn't certified but used it with no problems and got a ship's licence for it (they don't ask the SSB type) and Long Range Certificate.
If it is dual band (upper and lower side band) then it will have marine frequencies as well as Ham. It needs an SSB licence not VHF.
>When fishing of the N/West coast of Australia all you can receive is Indonesian fisherman because they transmitting at well over 20 watts.
Marine SSB's are 150 watts, VHF's are 25 and handheld 5.
As I said any radio that's not certified can be used because nobody checks. We had an Icom700 SSB that wasn't certified but used it with no problems and got a ship's licence for it (they don't ask the SSB type) and Long Range Certificate.
prv
Well-Known Member
That's not what he means by dual band. He means something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-5R-BAO...752?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20d1e95300
The "dual band" refers to UHF and VHF.
Pete
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Also, vhf in this context is generally frequency modulated. HF by convention is generally single sideband with supressed carrier. LSB for 7Mhz and lower, USB for higher frequencies.
This thread has certainly rekindled my interest in the 2m and 70 cm amateur bands. Those transceivers are incredibly cheap.
This thread has certainly rekindled my interest in the 2m and 70 cm amateur bands. Those transceivers are incredibly cheap.
GHA
Well-Known Member
And highly regarded in the ham world. When I did the exams a couple of years ago all the club guys had one.
VicMallows
Well-Known Member
In the1960's the 19-set really was the lowest-of-the-low. T1154/R1155 were prized for those lovely big blue and yellow knobs (and the huge air-spaced variable capacitors behind the panel). An HRO was the best most of us could aspire to .... buy the time I could afford an AR88D, I had already build a G2DAF/G3BDQ receiver. As for an Eddystone 880!
Checked out my BC221 recently. Still working and not too far out from my £15 digital frequency meter.
Happy days.
William_H
Well-Known Member
Hi Vic (Mallows) Yes I am familiar with the no 19 set and some of that other WW2 gear. I too have a BC 221 or variation of it. For those who don't know it this was the typical HF radio receiver used in all US twin engined planes. Or am I confused with the US army set. I have both up and working. Both very similar in design. I read somewhere that these radios each cost the equivalent of 15 months salary for a US soldier. Ah nostalgia. In my early ham days I have a "command" 6 to 9mhz receiver set up witha converter for 50mhz band.
Anyway back to the Baofeng transceiver. I have one cost close to 20 squid. Yes it is most likely ilegal more for the huge range of frequencies it can receive and transmit on.
It is programmed for UHF CB channels and VHF 2 metre ham bands. it is possible however to program it into memory for almost any VHF high band FM. It pleases me to think it could be used for police fire ambulance taxi or so many other services. Hence it is ilegal. I have simply programed it for a few VHF marine channels in my case 16, 72,73 and 77. It is very light but if you start pushing buttons and don't have your reading specs you would be in big trouble. So mine is more a toy than anything else.
But to the OP if you are careful it would never be noticed as a non compliant VHF. Certainly a proper marine HH is more foolproof. good luck olewill
Anyway back to the Baofeng transceiver. I have one cost close to 20 squid. Yes it is most likely ilegal more for the huge range of frequencies it can receive and transmit on.
It is programmed for UHF CB channels and VHF 2 metre ham bands. it is possible however to program it into memory for almost any VHF high band FM. It pleases me to think it could be used for police fire ambulance taxi or so many other services. Hence it is ilegal. I have simply programed it for a few VHF marine channels in my case 16, 72,73 and 77. It is very light but if you start pushing buttons and don't have your reading specs you would be in big trouble. So mine is more a toy than anything else.
But to the OP if you are careful it would never be noticed as a non compliant VHF. Certainly a proper marine HH is more foolproof. good luck olewill
