Is it just me....
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waverider
New member
Nah....looks a bit like a suped up Flymo to me!
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ParaHandy
Active member
hmmm ... yes ... quite what he was thinking of when he passes remarks such as "won't cost a penny" ....
reading LNTM 06/02, which is where he gets the authority from, the summary to which directs that a report should be submitted (immediately) where an incident "reflects on the safe operation of the Dockyard Port of Portsmouth". Having to take avoiding action inside the small ships channel is a fact of life. It is, after all, extremely narrow. It is narrow because the harbour authorities have so determined. Reporting that the earth is round doesn't seem sensible to me ...
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reading LNTM 06/02, which is where he gets the authority from, the summary to which directs that a report should be submitted (immediately) where an incident "reflects on the safe operation of the Dockyard Port of Portsmouth". Having to take avoiding action inside the small ships channel is a fact of life. It is, after all, extremely narrow. It is narrow because the harbour authorities have so determined. Reporting that the earth is round doesn't seem sensible to me ...
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CaptainCava
New member
Yes, I agree, "wont cost a penny" is irritating....
and how about "you are required to report incidents whether you want to or not".
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and how about "you are required to report incidents whether you want to or not".
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graham
Well-known member
Greetings Scuttlebutters
Sounds like someone justifying their budget to me.
I think the words "having to take <font color=red>emergency </font color=red>action"sums it up.
It is arguable at what point normal giving way becomes emergency action to avoid a collision.
Sounds like someone justifying their budget to me.
I think the words "having to take <font color=red>emergency </font color=red>action"sums it up.
It is arguable at what point normal giving way becomes emergency action to avoid a collision.
boatmike
Well-known member
No it doesn't frankly. We operate in the confines of a Naval port. Only those with no services background or a paranoid dislike of any form of disciplined authority would object to the necessary overall control of QHM in such circumstances. He has a difficult and very demanding job and I for one have no problem in either recognising his authority or reporting any incident to him. Be thankful that this QHM is sympathetic to the needs of private yachts and tries hard to balance the interests of all port users. If you want to deal with ignorance and dangerous behaviour rather than just grumble about it on these forums to no avail, report it to the required authorities as in fact you are obliged to do anyway and be thankful that he is interested enough to try to do something about it.
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CaptainCava
New member
<Only those with no services background>
Isn't that most of us?
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Isn't that most of us?
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boatmike
Well-known member
Hmm... Unfortunately so some would say. Let me re-phrase then. Those of us WITH a services background don't have a paranoid dislike of authority. Without control and authority we lapse into anarchy. Perhaps it's this approaching anarchy that causes people to behave so badly in the first place. Perhaps those who rant against QHM, Police, etc. should try living in Baghdad........
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capt_courageous
New member
Mike
Well said.
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Well said.
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BustinAround
New member
Very good point, quit moaning you lot!
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jimi
Well-known member
Also posted on Mobo
I also do'nt like the tone of this either, it raises my hackles ..surely the prime objective is not to apportion blame and prosecute but investigate causes and where possible remove these causes .. whether it be a poorly laid out small boat channel, idiot of a skipper, inappropriate legislation. Do'nt forget QHM that we are not a warrior but citizen state, the taxpayer pays your wages and there's a lot of leisure boats in Portsmouth and very few incidents .. I'd guess most of the incidents actually relate to charter boats with skippers with very little real experience.
I have been privy to a reply from QHM from a complaint by a leisure user to a close quarters situation with a QHM craft. The tone, to say the least, was condescending rather than apologetic. I do not get the impression that the interests of the whole user community of Portsmouth are fairly represented and managed. Hopefully this is a matter of perception rather than of reality.
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I also do'nt like the tone of this either, it raises my hackles ..surely the prime objective is not to apportion blame and prosecute but investigate causes and where possible remove these causes .. whether it be a poorly laid out small boat channel, idiot of a skipper, inappropriate legislation. Do'nt forget QHM that we are not a warrior but citizen state, the taxpayer pays your wages and there's a lot of leisure boats in Portsmouth and very few incidents .. I'd guess most of the incidents actually relate to charter boats with skippers with very little real experience.
I have been privy to a reply from QHM from a complaint by a leisure user to a close quarters situation with a QHM craft. The tone, to say the least, was condescending rather than apologetic. I do not get the impression that the interests of the whole user community of Portsmouth are fairly represented and managed. Hopefully this is a matter of perception rather than of reality.
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boatmike
Well-known member
It's quite clear to me that this post is polarising the views put forward in direct proportion to the general views of the great unwashed.
On one hand there are the few remaining unashamed traditionalists like myself that believe in democracy but recognise the need for the police and other authorities with the power to control crime, vandalism and bad behaviour, and those who would reduce all authorities, including the police, to an ineffective undermanned wimper and winge on about political correctness and some false ideology that appears to be based on a definition of democracy that allows everyone the freedom to act as they like. Unfortunately gentlemen I recognise the latter group to now be in the majority in our society. That's why standards of behaviour in the streets, at sea and generally are deteriorating to the point where incidents of bad behaviour like the motor cruiser full of louts who's behaviour started all this on another post are becoming commonplace. All that sadly appears to be happening on the water is that manners and general behaviour are both deteriorating in direct proportion to the standards of those all around us. Those who are doing the protesting about the authorities should seriously ask themselves how they will feel when anarchy finally arrives......
QHM needs our support in improving behaviour within his jurisdiction and he has mine without reservation. He can't do much most of the time but three cheers that he keeps trying.....
None of those who are protesting seem to put forward an alternative. What would you do if a bloody great motor cruiser cut you up and you had to do a crash stop to avoid him and then gave you the V sign? Nothing?
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On one hand there are the few remaining unashamed traditionalists like myself that believe in democracy but recognise the need for the police and other authorities with the power to control crime, vandalism and bad behaviour, and those who would reduce all authorities, including the police, to an ineffective undermanned wimper and winge on about political correctness and some false ideology that appears to be based on a definition of democracy that allows everyone the freedom to act as they like. Unfortunately gentlemen I recognise the latter group to now be in the majority in our society. That's why standards of behaviour in the streets, at sea and generally are deteriorating to the point where incidents of bad behaviour like the motor cruiser full of louts who's behaviour started all this on another post are becoming commonplace. All that sadly appears to be happening on the water is that manners and general behaviour are both deteriorating in direct proportion to the standards of those all around us. Those who are doing the protesting about the authorities should seriously ask themselves how they will feel when anarchy finally arrives......
QHM needs our support in improving behaviour within his jurisdiction and he has mine without reservation. He can't do much most of the time but three cheers that he keeps trying.....
None of those who are protesting seem to put forward an alternative. What would you do if a bloody great motor cruiser cut you up and you had to do a crash stop to avoid him and then gave you the V sign? Nothing?
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G
Guest
Guest
Agree with Boatmike
The QHM has enough on his plate without having 'no feedback' to work with ....
He has palced a post on the forum and shown what should be done in incidents involving near misses etc. He also goes on to say about removal of obstructions / improvement of services ....
Overall I would say he sounds pretty damn interested in all who use his Port ..... remember that Portsmouth is a busy Naval, Commercial and Yachting Port ..... a daunting task to look after. Many thanks to him and like that a special small boat channel exists, harbour patrols etc. etc.
Isn't it better to help him than moan ??
In fact all HM's need feedback and assistance to do their jobs right ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
The QHM has enough on his plate without having 'no feedback' to work with ....
He has palced a post on the forum and shown what should be done in incidents involving near misses etc. He also goes on to say about removal of obstructions / improvement of services ....
Overall I would say he sounds pretty damn interested in all who use his Port ..... remember that Portsmouth is a busy Naval, Commercial and Yachting Port ..... a daunting task to look after. Many thanks to him and like that a special small boat channel exists, harbour patrols etc. etc.
Isn't it better to help him than moan ??
In fact all HM's need feedback and assistance to do their jobs right ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
nct1
Member
OK, the PR for message not spot on, but in real life, the vast majority of people would be able to make a judgement respecting whether an incident merited reporting or not.
Yes Yes you are going to say that it is compulsory, but unless it happens under QHM's nose, (is QHM going to prosecute the non reporting or the poor sailing), how can it be effectively compulsory.
Surely it is nice to know that there is a sanction that can be taken. The other alternatives are,
1. Do nothing, which means the bad sailor has no incentive to consider others.
2. Take the law into your own hands, which is something that helps nobody in the long run.
The original incident this was based on, clearly showed that either a poor personal attitude, or poor training was the real issue.
For the former cause, the reporting mechanism seems to be ideal, if a boat has numerous reports, then eventually something can be done.
For the latter cause, will someone now tell me for the millionth time that a standard level of training is not necessary ?
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Yes Yes you are going to say that it is compulsory, but unless it happens under QHM's nose, (is QHM going to prosecute the non reporting or the poor sailing), how can it be effectively compulsory.
Surely it is nice to know that there is a sanction that can be taken. The other alternatives are,
1. Do nothing, which means the bad sailor has no incentive to consider others.
2. Take the law into your own hands, which is something that helps nobody in the long run.
The original incident this was based on, clearly showed that either a poor personal attitude, or poor training was the real issue.
For the former cause, the reporting mechanism seems to be ideal, if a boat has numerous reports, then eventually something can be done.
For the latter cause, will someone now tell me for the millionth time that a standard level of training is not necessary ?
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kindredspirit
Well-known member
I strongly disagree with you.
QHM is acting for the common good and should be supported.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.begleys.com/weather.htm>Useful links for Irish waters.</A>
QHM is acting for the common good and should be supported.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.begleys.com/weather.htm>Useful links for Irish waters.</A>
doris
Well-known member
QHM has now limited any further expansion of moorings in Portsmouth Harbour. Since it is a working port (rather than a naval one in reality) a significant ammount of discipline is required. Any weekend will demonstrate that this is lacking so why on earth are there so many whingers. More sense and discipline and there could be more berths/moorings thereby lowering costs. But no, the there are too many dickheads with their heads in the sand moaning about 'civil liberties'. I suppose some of the prats in this thread would be happy to drive round the M25 the wrong way and feel agrieved if they were told off!
<hr width=100% size=1>Real men do it 2handed.
<hr width=100% size=1>Real men do it 2handed.
G
Guest
Guest
Training ....
Generally considering the number of boats and incidents - not a bad ratio ?? OK - one bad incident is worth an infinite number of good.
Its the same argument about Flags of Convenience .... the more you have, the more incidents you have ..... but %age doesn't change.
Formal training has its merits - but how do you assess how much training is needed when the blindest idiot can buy a boat - just as easily as the most sensible experienced salty-sea-dog ..... actually I think I should re-phrase that ...... leave out the sensible !!!
Look at somne of the Blue Ensign antics ...... sorry to bring ol'blue into it - but it is an excellent example.
I know those that have been around on water for years - me included and make some hash of mistakes !! Sad but true.
I live in the Baltics where formallicencing exists and I cannot actually say that boating is that much better .... maybe - because there are so many less boats around ... there are fewer incidents - but what I have seen is some crackers of 'crunchers' that deny all reason !!!!
We know it will come one day - EU will see to that .... but until then I have no faith in formal training .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
Generally considering the number of boats and incidents - not a bad ratio ?? OK - one bad incident is worth an infinite number of good.
Its the same argument about Flags of Convenience .... the more you have, the more incidents you have ..... but %age doesn't change.
Formal training has its merits - but how do you assess how much training is needed when the blindest idiot can buy a boat - just as easily as the most sensible experienced salty-sea-dog ..... actually I think I should re-phrase that ...... leave out the sensible !!!
Look at somne of the Blue Ensign antics ...... sorry to bring ol'blue into it - but it is an excellent example.
I know those that have been around on water for years - me included and make some hash of mistakes !! Sad but true.
I live in the Baltics where formallicencing exists and I cannot actually say that boating is that much better .... maybe - because there are so many less boats around ... there are fewer incidents - but what I have seen is some crackers of 'crunchers' that deny all reason !!!!
We know it will come one day - EU will see to that .... but until then I have no faith in formal training .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
G
Guest
Guest
Simple questions ...
Who imposed the Small Boat Channel ?
Why was the Samll Boat Channel imposed ?
Who benefits most from the Small Boat Channel ?
Do you consider that the Small BOat Channel should be scrapped ?
I think the answers to those simple questions will suffice ??
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
Who imposed the Small Boat Channel ?
Why was the Samll Boat Channel imposed ?
Who benefits most from the Small Boat Channel ?
Do you consider that the Small BOat Channel should be scrapped ?
I think the answers to those simple questions will suffice ??
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
Mike21
New member
Disagree with you on this, if don't report incidents which are cause by the fact that the small ships channel is too narrow for number of boats using it then QHM can't make a case for changes without documented incidents.
As for reporting incidents caused by inconsiderate or bad skippers, hopefully by reporting these incidents QHM can then have a word with those involved and hopefully point out the error of their ways.
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As for reporting incidents caused by inconsiderate or bad skippers, hopefully by reporting these incidents QHM can then have a word with those involved and hopefully point out the error of their ways.
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G
Guest
Guest
Another question ?
How to change the SQ .. ?
Do you winge and moan like an old washer woman ?
Report and complain where appropriate ?
Join the unwashed political correct do-gooders and remove all vestiges of authority that just might keep us lot in check and the straight and narrow ?
BTW - I am NOT ex Services ..... OK ex Merchant Navy ..... but 13 years of my 17 was spent on those confounded Flag of Convenience Ships that a lot of forumites etc. like to have a go at !!!!
I don't understand how people can complain so much .... what would you do if you had his job ..... its a bloody busy port with Ferry's, yachts of all descriptions, idiots, seaman, what have you all trying to use an entrance that even Nelson found a bit tight at times !!!!
If you were expected to coordinate all that and provide a working facility ....... well I don't think I'm up to it .... are you ????
Stop bloody moaning and enjoy the water ..... BBC !!
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/
How to change the SQ .. ?
Do you winge and moan like an old washer woman ?
Report and complain where appropriate ?
Join the unwashed political correct do-gooders and remove all vestiges of authority that just might keep us lot in check and the straight and narrow ?
BTW - I am NOT ex Services ..... OK ex Merchant Navy ..... but 13 years of my 17 was spent on those confounded Flag of Convenience Ships that a lot of forumites etc. like to have a go at !!!!
I don't understand how people can complain so much .... what would you do if you had his job ..... its a bloody busy port with Ferry's, yachts of all descriptions, idiots, seaman, what have you all trying to use an entrance that even Nelson found a bit tight at times !!!!
If you were expected to coordinate all that and provide a working facility ....... well I don't think I'm up to it .... are you ????
Stop bloody moaning and enjoy the water ..... BBC !!
<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/