Is it just me or are all modern boats completely horrible ?

Boo2 said:
Just seen this vid on YouTube and was struck by how little I like the boat :


What on earth do designers think they're doing to create such monstrosities ?

Boo2
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Market forces always work. If punters no likey then company go busty?
 
Much better to buy a knackered old racer, spend years trying to polish it up and then have it start falling to pieces, starting with the rudder, when you actually try to use it.
 
pvb said:
What has that got to do with a discussion on the design of modern boats? Beneteau has built a successful business through research and innovation. They now employ 8200 people in France, US, Poland, Italy and China.
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C'mon ... it was in response to your reply to my PoV that designs are not always based on what people want - but based on what is believed people want.
I can remember Bendy being near bankrupt - yes I'm that old .... so - I agree its been a remarkable turn round - aided by Jeanneau of course ...
 
Beneteau381 said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Market forces always work. If punters no likey then company go busty?
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The weakness in that statement is that many boat builders have gone bust - not so much because of poor design - but recession etc. Moody - (salvaged just in time ) ... Westerly ... just to name a couple.
When all there is are a lot less builders in the price bracket you are looking - you take whats best of whats there.

Personally I don't like the flat deck wide beam arse type boats ... I would like to be able to afford such - but if I could - I know I would be looking elsewhere to spend that dosh.

Never been one for USA boats ... but then you go on board a Hinkley ... but then again I'm an old fart who likes traditional.
 
If you'd ever sailed an 1890s gaff cutter ( I have briefly) you'd not object to much more beam, a lot less water in your face and less tendency to heel to 45 degrees. For racing beamy flat boats simply win. Without water ballast and/or multiple gorillas on the rail a more moderate boat is better. But the market and slowly creeping alterations of what "looks good" has brought us to what Ben/Jen/Bav are building today.

Apart from racing, cruising versions of modern designs have good accommodation, sail well and neraly upright in light to moderate winds (when most people want to be sailing), and will get from A to B in strong winds if they have to, though it may be a quite unpleasant experience.

I have a modernish 35 ft cruising Jeanneau - but try as I might I can't work out how to fit in the very civilised Jeanneau accommodation into a 1970s She 36 hull, which is in almost every other respect a greatly superior and much better looking sailing yacht with similar length. But then I'm ancient. If you grew up with racing modern boats the She (the nicest handling boat I've ever sailed) would look an strange ugly pointy-ended antique, nearly as much so as an 1890 racing gaffer.
 
jwilson said:
If you'd ever sailed an 1890s gaff cutter ( I have briefly) you'd not object to much more beam, a lot less water in your face and less tendency to heel to 45 degrees. For racing beamy flat boats simply win. Without water ballast and/or multiple gorillas on the rail a more moderate boat is better. But the market and slowly creeping alterations of what "looks good" has brought us to what Ben/Jen/Bav are building today.

Apart from racing, cruising versions of modern designs have good accommodation, sail well and neraly upright in light to moderate winds (when most people want to be sailing), and will get from A to B in strong winds if they have to, though it may be a quite unpleasant experience.

I have a modernish 35 ft cruising Jeanneau - but try as I might I can't work out how to fit in the very civilised Jeanneau accommodation into a 1970s She 36 hull, which is in almost every other respect a greatly superior and much better looking sailing yacht with similar length. But then I'm ancient. If you grew up with racing modern boats the She (the nicest handling boat I've ever sailed) would look an strange ugly pointy-ended antique, nearly as much so as an 1890 racing gaffer.
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I do not disagree .. comes down to what you want to do with the boat.

I'm not looking for race pace anymore - sold my Race boat in Tallin some years ago after winning Baltsail Regatta ... and chose to be more leisurely .... albeit in small motorsailer.

I am looking at other boats but still with idea of 2 - 3 people only.
 
I don't object particularly to the Beneteau, but neither do I warm to it. I wouldn't choose a boat with the main cabin covering an acre and not a hand-hold in sight anyway.

What people forget is how dreadful many or most boat were in the '70s, especially the British ones. The little galleon thing whose name I forget was perhaps the most extreme example but a lot of cruisers were ridiculous parodies of the IOR racers of the time, with only boats like UFOs having desirable looks. I could name some other examples but some of them haven't done the decent thing by sinking yet and I might offend some owners. Even dumpy modern boats look as if they were designed for the job, even if many lack character.
 
I certainly wouldn't say all modern boats are horrible.. They look ok or nice, Have good spacious cockpits for lounging/entertaining and spacious airy interiors and 50 footers are doing 7 knts in 6 knts of wind..(that's where im jelous)
The horrible aspect is how they are built or what they are built of.. Mdf joinery, square corners (ouch) steel interior hinges straight from ones kitchen. Saildrives , foam cored, brass and plastic skin fittings etc.
Now all a new boat needs is an interior designer and kitchen fitter. Gone is the need for shipwrights. All cost cutting leading to a much shorter life for boats.
 
I'm quite happy to admire them. I do not have to own one. Now that racing designs have become so highly specialized, its finally time we just relaxed and got on with the simple joys of sailing. The modern wedge shapes might be fast and are meant to plane, but only when lightly built and loaded. In the more common sizes, suitable for a cruising couple and, when loaded for the task with bikes and tools, supplies, dinghies and outboards, not to mention a comfortable interior with a full fridge, its all done with the planing and going fast bit. I've seen plenty of the smaller Hanse's with the wedge ends and the his 'n' her's steering wheels dragging along an equally wide wedge of disturbed water, when just loaded up for the weekend and with a crew six well-fed guys in her cockpit. Wide boats may be stiff initially, but they are not stable ultimately. This is somewhat mitigated when the boat gets bigger, simply because when it comes to seaworthiness, with everything else being equal, size does matter. On speed: the average relative and medium speed for fore and aft rigged "normal" yachts is still 0.9 x square root LWL, or thereabouts. A German yachting magazine did a race between a modern x-yacht and a two hundred year-old design of a Dutch Lemsteraak fishing boat. Considering the aspect of speed only, the gaff rigged antique came out on top. The conclusion: everything changes and nothing does. And yes, blunt bows are, apparently, in again as well.
Best, A
 
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Minchsailor said:
I would guess the major market for this boat is not the leisure owner/sailor, but the large charter fleet operators in the Med. (and, maybe the Carib?). I would imagine there are lot of selling points for their typical charter.
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I would not have thought that there would be a lot of demand in the charter market for that Bene First - it looks likely to be fast, but accomodation is very basic.
 
maby said:
I would not have thought that there would be a lot of demand in the charter market for that Bene First - it looks likely to be fast, but accomodation is very basic.
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Yes, very much a Med boat, can't imagine that cockpit to be much fun with horizontal rain and a makeshift sprayhood, looks draughty as well, with the wind up your transom, in the night watches.

Actually now I have actually seen the video it does not look so bad, you can get away with a lot on a 50ft boat; the sub 40 footers do look grim. Rather have the Wally though.
 
Refueler said:
I tend not to believe manufacturers build what people want ... I trend to the idea they build what they THINK and some spotty consultant says people want.
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Why do i always end up arguing with you ??? We would have a heyday in the club bar!!!
You say that the manufacturer may not be designing what people want but you seem to be suggesting that they are creating a market of what they want people to want. In a way that is excellent marketing. However, i think in the yachting industry that is flawed argument, because there is a host of boats in the 45-60 ft range ( makes me wonder how they manage to sell them all) & if the market did not like the offering from one manufacturer they could move on. One could go from HR to Swan to Rustler to Gunfleet, to Oyster, Contest to Hanse to Benny & the list goes on. Or are you saying that the new Rustler is too much like the new Benny .
What about Spirit- Have not seen a proper picture but i bet it is a lot different.
Who will sell the most
Hanse, Benny ?? certainly not Rustler or Oyster etc
 
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