Is it a Bargain?

[derekbland]

I am interested in a Fairline Phantom 46 fly that it is in the Med already. I had envisaged purchasing in the UK and to sailing it down. I may be able to secure it for around £150k. It is a 2002 model and looks in good order. It also includes the tender with a small 4hp outboard along with plenty of kit, even the bed linen. It hasn't had its engines serviced since 2016 but hasn't done many miles since then. Assuming the survey were to work out well, do you think, like I do, that this is a fair deal? There is one in the UK for £210k, same year.

I would need to sail it from it's current location to where I may berth it for the first year. This will cost me around £7k and that is allowing £750 for berthing x 4-5 nights depending on whether, possibly longer and a little for errors.

Excluding survey and travel there, I am thinking £150k purchase, £20k spend, if needed and 7k to move it, total £177k. Even if you round up to £180k it still seems reasonable and I may not need the £20k if all is in good order.

Your thoughts please.

 

[petem]

Sounds promising. Is it VAT paid?

What engines does it have? What's the spec like (A/C, Gennie, Pasarelle?).

Get the broker to send you RECENT photos, ask him why it hasn't been serviced since 2016 (when exactly) and if there are any known issues with the boat.

Also, ask to see photos of VAT certificate, service history, Bill of Sale, etc before getting too excited.

Pete

 

[markc]

When boats reach this kind of age, the condition is what really dictates the value. If the condition is good, the one you mentioned sounds like a decent price. I would add a note of caution - many of us here, myself included, have flown off to view a boat that has been promised to be in 'great condition' only to find an unloved and poorly maintained boat. It does add to your knowledge, but can be a PITA! Also, as there are many Phantom 46s on the market I would set about speaking to every broker that has one listed and make a spreadsheet of every boat available - you'll weed out the duplicates and boats that are sold, plus you will get the chance to understand the 'sale' price of most of them. Many boats are bought for substantially less than the screen price.

 

[derekbland]

Yes VAT paid but will of course check.

Engines - Volvo TAMD 74P EDC 475hp, I think 700 or 800 hours so a fair amount.

Full med spec including all you mention. Only thing is that the there is no fill in for the twin berth to be made into a double, not sure how much that would cost.

Apparently a little bit of Gel cracking but no osmosis known.

It is a Sunseeker broker, can they be dodgy?

 

[petem]

Yes VAT paid but will of course check.

Engines - Volvo TAMD 74P EDC 475hp, I think 700 or 800 hours so a fair amount.

Full med spec including all you mention. Only thing is that the there is no fill in for the twin berth to be made into a double, not sure how much that would cost.

Apparently a little bit of Gel cracking but no osmosis known.

Hours are fine.

Don't work about the missing infill, in the grand scheme of things, it's inconsequential (can often be fashioned from a bit of plywood).

Where is the cracked gel coat? Is it just some localized crazing? If so, a surveyor can advise and not likely to be a problem.

It is a Sunseeker broker, can they be dodgy?

Absolutely, don't just walk away, RUN!

Seriously, is it a brokerage or stock boat (that makes a big difference)?

 

[markc]

It is a Sunseeker broker, can they be dodgy?

It's a brokerage boat so they will give no warranty whatsoever, nor have any real interest in the condition. They just do the deal, you do the due diligence.

 

[jrudge]

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2002/Fairline-Phantom-46-3100866/Malta#.WniT_2bRlBw

I assume

It is the cheapest one for sale, so it is either priced to sell ( breath of fresh air), something wrong with it or it is in some form or other a "stock" boat or linked to another sale even if not SS stock at present - ie it needs to go so that following deal happens.

Malta explains the transport cost.

Will be a fun trip, sure the forum will offer crew ( which was lacking for todays trip to Yarmouth on the other thread!)

 

[Portofino]

Apparently a little bit of Gel cracking but no osmosis known.

It is a Sunseeker broker, can they be dodgy?

Quite the opposite.
Above board they won,t list it from a paperwork pov if anything is missing .
They use a Med Yacht Brokers Association Contract to sell and buy boats .
They would have told the vender to get it valeted too , well they did with me when they handled my SS .
It’s priced to reflect condition and the market .
Don,t give too much away on this forum because folks Gazump .

If you sound serious and build a rapport they will ( Broker ) take you out for a test drive - like cars bums on seats more so if you have come a long way ,ie flown in .
I let the SS Broker take prospective s out for joy rides , he sold it to the 1st withina week of listing we achieved more or less the exact price he told me it would fetch - gone in 3 weeks from list to €€ in the bank .

So , presume you have spoken ( as well as e- mail ) and shown intent ,asked for a few more pics
Anchor locker
Under the engines
Inbetween the engines
Geny
Close up of teak on the bathing platform .
Inside the fridge

Figure on less than 10% off , if you attempt to lift a leg by too lowball too soon ( presume boats freshly listed ?) then Broker / owner will shut down -
We added 8% on the magic figure then another €1k to cover the buyers survey fee - yup buyers allways that off in a man maths kinda way .
Broker “ managed “ the buying process so the buyer - that’s you ended up where the seller is on price .
It’s all a game really with the Broker as the ref .
So tell em you will fly down take a “joy ride *“and if described buy it for 6/8 % less asking and make up grand or two off after the survey .

*don,t use that word call it a run round the bay , if you bring family like wife n kids and they show + ve vibes at the trip round the bay then when you return , Broker will ask for 10 % deposit asap to secure the boat .

I had a German guy enquire , then asked once the broker arranged the no obligation trip round the bay ( I said / refused € for the fuel btw ) he then asked if he could bring wife n kids - sure I said .
They flew down 1 st WE after list ( you snooze you loose etc ) and bought it .

So a SS brokage boat is a +ve thing for a buyer imho .

Just get a move on .

 

[jrudge]

Re condition givne age when i looked at Squadron 58s of a similar age the two issues they all had were

a. teak heavily worn. either replacement required or taking back the chalking and sanding

b. the interior linings basically fall off as the foam in the heat just crumbles. This impacts Sunseeker as well as i saw it on those as well. Given they all use the same interior stuff other of similar age will get it as well.

c. many had a "tin can" overhaul where the engines had been sprayed ( badly) to make them look nice


A B and C above are unlikely to be limited to Squadrons - so unless the owner has done something the linings and teak are probably shot.

 

[derekbland]

What's the difference between a brokerage and a stock boat? The owner is selling through Sunseeker.

I think it may just be crazing but will check.

 

[markc]

Boat has had 1,100 views on Yacht Market so it will have been up for sale for quite some time. Worth asking some questions IMHO

 

[markc]

What's the difference between a brokerage and a stock boat? The owner is selling through Sunseeker.

If they own the boat they have a much greater liability in terms of warranty

 

[jrudge]

What's the difference between a brokerage and a stock boat? The owner is selling through Sunseeker.

I think it may just be crazing but will check.

Broker - selling on behalf of owner - just takes his fee

Stock - he owns it. Usually part exchange.

They are usually ( depending on local laws I suspect) warranted for a period and in my experience realistically priced - they have no need to dream of value they simply what to sell it for what it is worth. They are also personally carrying the holding costs - interest, mooring fees, insurance etc.

The owner ( if this is a stock boat - sunseeker) also tend to put effort into presentation and will fix anything obvious wrong with it pre sale and are very good at just taking a list form a survey and simply actioning the lot.

I have bought from boats.co.uk and stock boats are nice simple transactions realistically priced, warranted and nicely presented.

 

[derekbland]

I'm not getting my hopes up as still raising the finance and am a very pragmatic kinda guy. If it goes it goes, if its pants its pants and the search continues.

 

[volvopaul]

Phantom 46 a great boat , engines are ok too.

Teak on bathing platform will be worn , rear seat cushions look like original, take special attention to the front saloon windows they leak and will no doubt leak as the med sun will have attacked the seals , check shafts amd p brackets , rudder stocks leak due to worn bushes . Looks a good value boat for the money , Malta is a difficult one to move out of , I know a skipper that can help you move it a small he has done plenty of in out trips from to Malta .
I’d be questioning the vat as a lot of owners use Malta as a tax reclaiming island .

 

[petem]

William (user 'poweryachtblog') will know the boat. He might comment on it.

Pete

 

[Portofino]

SS flog stock boats with 3/12 warranty’s , priced built in - talking to the brokers it’s a right PITA .
They have dropped a few klangers with Vp engine woes and CAT heat exchanger woes from new to boating owners canning them as if new !
There was Porto 53 in the SoF been doing the rounds last year , they sold it twice as it came back within 3/12 for as owner wanted a refund .
Last I heard it was stranded in Corsica with a busted D12 Exhaust manifold waiting parts and a 9issed off owner and SS were trying to arrange the fix - as inside the warranty.
I suspect they will only do stock boats if there’s enough headroom for significant fixes in it , from one end of the P-ex equation.
Re 1000 views maybe Malta is a put off - distance wise ?? and as said there’s a lot about so need to temp someone .

There’s a couple of P 46 ,s on my pontoon.

Anecdotally

1- the cockpit is small and with a table + a few directors chairs it looks cramped at meal times for them - very camping like
You see with the U.K. punters in mind they have blown out the saloon - indoor space ,which nobody uses in the Med .

2- where are you gonna lie down to sunbath ——- and guests at the same time ?
I see a couple on the bow cushions and the rest just mouch about with a envious look on there face knackered just wanting to find a place to kip .

 

[derekbland]

Anecdotally

1- the cockpit is small and with a table + a few directors chairs it looks cramped at meal times for them - very camping like
You see with the U.K. punters in mind they have blown out the saloon - indoor space ,which nobody uses in the Med .

2- where are you gonna lie down to sunbath ——- and guests at the same time ?
I see a couple on the bow cushions and the rest just mouch about with a envious look on there face knackered just wanting to find a place to kip .[/QUOTE]

Regards sunbathing, I don't really sunbath and wife tends to sit in the sun. My son also doesn't tend to lie in the sun which leaves my daughter who does. As they are only going to be there for the odd few weeks the space is not so much a concern although I take your point. I have a feeling that the table on the flybridge can be lowered to form a sunbed but will check.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

William (user 'poweryachtblog') will know the boat. He might comment on it.

Pete

This a good suggestion - a pm to PYB is the first thing I'd do.

 

[derekbland]

This a good suggestion - a pm to PYB is the first thing I'd do.

Ok so am a dinosaur so how do I pm (assume personal message) to PYB? Cheers.