Is boating in a death spiral?

[Bouba]

As it happens, if you can get a place in a public port in the south of France, the rates are still incredibly good value. Toulon Vieille Darse (where I am in 226th place on the waiting list) a berth for my Sun Odyssey 349 would be €3160/year. Sadly I’ve got at least another 5 years to wait.

Note also the rule of the first Rappel - any boat that hasn’t left it’s berth during the year (overnight for larger boats, day sailing ok for less than 2 Tonnes) will have it’s mooring fees tripled. An excellent idea to encourage people who don’t use their boats to move them on.

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That’s very progressive....we aren’t far from there, so hopefully it will spread.
As a caveat....and to repeat what I said earlier....I’m against the ports (and banks) being taken over by live aboards who have been priced off the land...but I have great sympathy for those boaters who as they age and get sick or are infirm....and take their boats out less and less until they eventually don’t....but still enjoy sitting aboard (and running their smokey engines )

 

[RunAgroundHard]

That’s very progressive....we aren’t far from there, so hopefully it will spread.
As a caveat....and to repeat what I said earlier....I’m against the ports (and banks) being taken over by live aboards who have been priced off the land...but I have great sympathy for those boaters who as they age and get sick or are infirm....and take their boats out less and less until they eventually don’t....but still enjoy sitting aboard (and running their smokey engines )

It's difficult for the aged to see the end and free up space for the young. So many cling on and it all becomes too much and dereliction sets in.

 

[Mark-1]

True. Gosport is almost uncannily reminiscent of Cap d’Antibes, isn’t it?

If you want a piping hot Full English Breakfast and a large mug of instant coffee it's substantially better!

 

[dgadee]

When I moved over to the Firth of Forth I spent a few months in one harbour where the old boys never went out. I was told - by one of them - that their boats were their garden sheds and they needed them for their mental health. I replied that they should get a garden shed if that's what they need and let younger sailors have their moorings. A tripling of fees would by met by their aggrieved sense of entitlement, I think.

 

[SC35]

Our marina is still full, but it's noticeable that there are fewer larger cruising boats.
There are many smaller boats with outboards, and outboard RIBs.
SC35-Mini seems to enjoy wakeboarding behind a friends RIB.

On the sailing side, there is a waiting list for the boat park at the local sailing club, where the younger generation are hammering along on RS200 / RS800, while those of a certain age trundle around in RS Elites.
Mrs SC35 has just bought an RS Tera

 

[The Q]

When I moved over to the Firth of Forth I spent a few months in one harbour where the old boys never went out. I was told - by one of them - that their boats were their garden sheds and they needed them for their mental health. I replied that they should get a garden shed if that's what they need and let younger sailors have their moorings. A tripling of fees would by met by their aggrieved sense of entitlement, I think.

I suspect a real shed in the garden would be a little too close to home.

Our border Collie likes playing with the boat yard dog at the upper forth boat club, when we go up there to visit family..

Time to go out to my garden shed... With Collie.

 

[dgadee]

In Bangor, NI there was a sort of naval reserve boat which sometimes went out with the full crew of old boys in uniform. The most important part was the optics setup in the bow cabin. Not just naval rum, I imagine.

 

[barca nova]

S Coast marina prices are crazy - we all know that. BUT as long as they are visited nothing will change. As an example for “extras”, I paid just over £4 for electricity for 3 days on Cobbs Quay in Poole using their meter system. In Yarmouth I was charged £5 per DAY. However Yarmouth was rammed that weekend, Over £60 to have 4 yachts rafted on our outside. Arrived in Beaulieu river marina having had to pre book at again silly prices, to be told by the very welcoming staff member that the “electricity is free” …..doh. On it goes. Summer “season” seems to be April to October for many marinas compared to 3 season price bands in France. No wonder most of the marina companies seem to be touting for business for next year.

Marinas are just another from of property development along with offices, houses, sheds etc. But they have one big advantage - they arent covered by the monopolies and price fixing legislation. No "harbours " are. So they can get together and rig the prices in their local areas.

In many areas new marinas were only ever built if the developer was allowed to take part of the land for housing. I believe Eastbourne and Brighton are like that as was Swansea.

But more even than mooring costs have you seen the prices of new boats? Even a fairly mean Eastern European 30 ft offering is £150k plus vat!

 

[potentillaCO32]

If you want a piping hot Full English Breakfast and a large mug of instant coffee it's substantially better!

Why would you be waking up in france and wanting a rubbish mix of cholesterol for breakfast?

 

[thinwater]

Context? Country? Size of boat? Data from where?

More questions than answers in that diagram.

Registered boats, all types, US. Owner age, not new sales. From NMMA conference.

There are lots of graphs like this. The point is only that boaters are getting older and the younger people have other interests. Boating is rather irrational. The only reason that drop off is not greater, IMO, is that the disposable income of the top 5% keeps growing. Gotta do something with all that money. But most of the boats just stay at the dock (a different conversation).

Interesting that the most common age 20 years ago was 20 years younger. The only reason the drop of

Covid 19 caused a drop in the age for power boat buyers, but not for sailboats.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Registered boats, all types, US. Owner age, not new sales. From NMMA conference.

There are lots of graphs like this. The point is only that boaters are getting older and the younger people have other interests. Boating is rather irrational.

Lots of hobbies are irrational. Boating is worse as it is irrelevant to the younger audience.

You only have to look at the thread on here about travel insurance restrictions older members on here are facing to be a little shocked at the age of some people on here.

I imagine if you got a lot of people inhere around a table it would look like an old people's home. This forum has 5 maybe 10 years max life left in it.

 

[dgadee]

Lots of hobbies are irrational. Boating is worse as it is irrelevant to the younger audience.

You only have to look at the thread on here about travel insurance restrictions older members on here are facing to be a little shocked at the age of some people on here.

I imagine if you got a lot of people inhere around a table it would look like an old people's home. This forum has 5 maybe 10 years max life left in it.

Well I intend to get more than a decade's sailing still. Boat yoga is my secret.

 

[Frogmogman]

Why would you be waking up in france and wanting a rubbish mix of cholesterol for breakfast?

It was the instant coffee that shocked me

 

[Sea Change]

Lots of hobbies are irrational. Boating is worse as it is irrelevant to the younger audience.

You only have to look at the thread on here about travel insurance restrictions older members on here are facing to be a little shocked at the age of some people on here.

I imagine if you got a lot of people inhere around a table it would look like an old people's home. This forum has 5 maybe 10 years max life left in it.

I hope not.
I think forum users tend to be older on average. Most people my age tend to gravitate towards other online platforms.

 

[Poignard]

Lots of hobbies are irrational. Boating is worse as it is irrelevant to the younger audience.

You only have to look at the thread on here about travel insurance restrictions older members on here are facing to be a little shocked at the age of some people on here.

I imagine if you got a lot of people inhere around a table it would look like an old people's home. This forum has 5 maybe 10 years max life left in it.

Boating should be banned, it is obviously prolonging the lives of people unnecessarily.

 

[Bouba]

Everything is about priorities….what do you want in life…for example, I think I got my first boat before I got my first new car

 

[Stemar]

Lots of hobbies are irrational. Boating is worse as it is irrelevant to the younger audience.

You only have to look at the thread on here about travel insurance restrictions older members on here are facing to be a little shocked at the age of some people on here.

I imagine if you got a lot of people inhere around a table it would look like an old people's home. This forum has 5 maybe 10 years max life left in it.

I can't speak for other places, but my club has a steady intake of younger members, including a fair number of the children of older members, and junior week has plenty of kids. Yes, there's a good collection of geriatrics, without which the club would struggle, as they're the ones who have the time to do stuff like build replacement pontoon sections, but the quiz nights have a mix of ages, from teens to 90s.

 

[Bouba]

I can't speak for other places, but my club has a steady intake of younger members, including a fair number of the children of older members, and junior week has plenty of kids. Yes, there's a good collection of geriatrics, without which the club would struggle, as they're the ones who have the time to do stuff like build replacement pontoon sections, but the quiz nights have a mix of ages, from teens to 90s.

But the club is on land.....so it’s like any other social club...working man’s club for example....it has drinks, food, quizzes, dances and entertainment....so people are attracted to, and feel loyal to that society....drinking down at the club might feel very attractive if the local pubs have got too rowdy. What I’m saying is that there may not be a direct correlation between boating....and clubbing

 

[Tamar]

Well I have an extra expensive lift out this winter. Our marina has decided it doesn't want owners working on their own boats in the yard. I asked them to define 'working' which they couldn't clearly. But It seems antifouling is out as well as anything that involves ladders and using spanners, so everything really.

 

[Stemar]

Well I have an extra expensive lift out this winter. Our marina has decided it doesn't want owners working on their own boats in the yard. I asked them to define 'working' which they couldn't clearly. But It seems antifouling is out as well as anything that involves ladders and using spanners, so everything really.

I'd be looking for somewhere else to lift out and, quite possibly, another marina.

Call me Mr Cynical, but I'd bet that they're giving H&S as a reason, but the more likely reason is that they can't charge you to work on your boat, but they can charge you when their workers do it, and also charge a daily rate for external people. Nice little earner.