Is boating in a death spiral?

[Mark-1]

Doesn't look like that to me (luckily, since I hope to get there next year). This is an upmarket one:

Rates Svinninge Marina | Port Adhoc Sverige

I was referring to my own circumstances - chartering and getting there and feeding and watering ourselves while we were there.

The marinas/chandlery/winter storage etc may well be cheap if people want to keep their own boats there.

 

[Sea Change]

I was referring to my own circumstances - chartering and getting there and feeding and watering ourselves while we were there.

The marinas/chandlery/winter storage etc may well be cheap if people want to keep their own boats there.

Andy Schell, of the 'On the Wind' podcast, moved from the US to Sweden and was very pleasantly surprised at the difference in sailing culture.
In the US sailing seems to be very much a rich man's hobby. We haven't used any marinas since we got here in June, because the prices we've seen have been upwards of $160 per night for us. That's not for a fancy yacht club- that often just gets you a berth on wooden piles where you have to rig up a cat's cradle of ropes to hold yourself off, and climb on and off the bow.
Visitor moorings are generally $50-60 per night. We did stay on a mooring in Annapolis at $35/night, and our friends were a bit surprised that we left after only two nights. By American standards that's so cheap that it's practically free.
In contrast, Andy Schell goes on about how everybody in Sweden can, and usually does, have a boat. Boats are smaller and simpler, there are small and basic marinas everywhere. It's a hobby for everybody.

 

[Mark-1]

Andy Schell, of the 'On the Wind' podcast, moved from the US to Sweden and was very pleasantly surprised at the difference in sailing culture.
In the US sailing seems to be very much a rich man's hobby. We haven't used any marinas since we got here in June, because the prices we've seen have been upwards of $160 per night for us. That's not for a fancy yacht club- that often just gets you a berth on wooden piles where you have to rig up a cat's cradle of ropes to hold yourself off, and climb on and off the bow.
Visitor moorings are generally $50-60 per night. We did stay on a mooring in Annapolis at $35/night, and our friends were a bit surprised that we left after only two nights. By American standards that's so cheap that it's practically free.
In contrast, Andy Schell goes on about how everybody in Sweden can, and usually does, have a boat. Boats are smaller and simpler, there are small and basic marinas everywhere. It's a hobby for everybody.

I'm convinced that small boats work far better in areas with deep water, no mud and no tides so you can moor right against the shore and get off the boat. Also arrive/leave at any time.

A small boat is far less tolerable if you're stuck on it for 12 hours at a time.

 

[Otter]

Talking to a few owners and brokers of smallish mobos pre2000 - we’re in the market for a sub 28 footer - they’re not getting any bites. Seems three segments are doing well:
1. Sail or mobo recent build, well known make, 35 foot plus
2. Trailer based mobos
3. Inland waterways craft of any type

 

[Frogmogman]

Are you comparing like with like ?….the natural comparison with the South of England is the South of France….and the North with the North of Scotland

I’d say it’s comparable to Dartmouth or Salcombe, but much less of a pain to get to from Paris than either of them are from London.

 

[JT14]

people in their 20’s and 30’s trying to claw their way onto the housing ladder would laugh at the idea of boat ownership

Just to throw some data in to the mix, I'm 32 years old and have been cruising full-time with my wife for 3 years now on our Rival 32, that we discovered in a dinghey corner of a boatyard. We worked on the boat for 2 years, saving as much cash as we could and left to go world cruising; Shetland to Canada so far, stopping everywhere we could. We have no personal fortune to live off, so we stop to pick up seasonal work when the pennies run out. Clawing onto the housing ladder may be something we look forward to in the future, or perhaps we are misfits looking for another boat project in another yard, somewhere. Because like everyone has said in the comments, there are loads of boats needing fixed up, everywhere..

 

[potentillaCO32]

Are you comparing like with like ?….the natural comparison with the South of England is the South of France….and the North with the North of Scotland

Why? Southern brittany has much better climate than south coast uk. Marina costs are maybe 1/3rd or less than the solent. Morbihan sailing is just as good as solent. Far more international races etc.

 

[Bouba]

Why? Southern brittany has much better climate than south coast uk. Marina costs are maybe 1/3rd or less than the solent. Morbihan sailing is just as good as solent. Far more international races etc.

We were talking about mooring costs.....so the most expensive place in Britain compared to the most expensive place in France and so on.....

 

[dgadee]

We were talking about mooring costs.....so the most expensive place in Britain compared to the most expensive place in France and so on.....

Nice and Marseille marinas (very centre of the towns) were pretty good value. Especially after Italian ones.

I don't think you could say that about the Solent.

 

[thinwater]

 

[dgadee]

Context? Country? Size of boat? Data from where?

More questions than answers in that diagram.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Catalina yachts, one of the biggest in the US, has just stopped production. Word is that lots of employees laid off.

 

[dgadee]

Catalina Yachts stops production

 

[DoubleEnder]

Are you comparing like with like ?….the natural comparison with the South of England is the South of France….and the North with the North of Scotland

True. Gosport is almost uncannily reminiscent of Cap d’Antibes, isn’t it?

 

[Blueboatman]

At first glance I wondered if the left hand or Y-axis represented the maxed out, new cost of boats bought at different ages !

 

[potentillaCO32]

We were talking about mooring costs.....so the most expensive place in Britain compared to the most expensive place in France and so on.....

Nonsense. In no way is hamble a comparison of frejus. From a climate perspective it is a comparison with the north french channel coast. The morbihan is a huge step up climate wise and, imho, beats the solent for sailing. Marina fees in latrinite are 1/3 those of the solent.
There is nothing to compare the uk against french ports further south than the morbihan. The only thing the uk wins on is highest cost.

 

[Bouba]

True. Gosport is almost uncannily reminiscent of Cap d’Antibes, isn’t it?

All I’m saying is the English Riviera is just like the ...........

 

[potentillaCO32]

All I’m saying is the English Riviera is just like the ...........

..... Climate of nothern french and netherland coasts and nearly the variety of the morbihan.

A bit like a cold and miserable version of southern brittany.

 

[capnsensible]

We were talking about mooring costs.....so the most expensive place in Britain compared to the most expensive place in France and so on.....

My favourite French marina is in Martinique

 

[Frogmogman]

As it happens, if you can get a place in a public port in the south of France, the rates are still incredibly good value. Toulon Vieille Darse (where I am in 226th place on the waiting list) a berth for my Sun Odyssey 349 would be €3160/year. Sadly I’ve got at least another 5 years to wait.

Note also the rule of the first Rappel - any boat that hasn’t left it’s berth during the year (overnight for larger boats, day sailing ok for less than 2 Tonnes) will have it’s mooring fees tripled. An excellent idea to encourage people who don’t use their boats to move them on.