Bouba
Well-Known Member
That’s two posts that I had to google today
.....yours and someone who went to a Bay City Rollers concert 
Is boating in a death spiral?
- Thread starter Otter
- Start date
.....yours and someone who went to a Bay City Rollers concert 
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Dog lovers always have the world's problems in perspective.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I’ve not seen any evidence anywhere in the UK of liveaboard people over spilling onto the tow path to the extent that pedestrian and bike traffic is significantly impeded. That sounds like the sort of rhetoric employed by tabloid media to stir up hate - it’s perfectly viable to have a houseboat community and housed community living adjacent in relative harmony.
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
The link I put up earlier to a mid 20s couple involved quite the opposite to passively, meekly accepting that they are cash cows in a rent-it dysfunctional housing business model.
They bought a swishy Jeanneau 49 deck salon model , toughed it out in a Scandinavian marina for one winter to save a few tokens for the boat fund .. and last posted from the Atlantic Spanish coast , en route to Australia.
Respect
It is easy to forget that a lot of the boating that happens on here is funded by rental income.
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steve yates
Well-Known Member
Already happening, apart from the restaurants businesses and gardens bit, thats just bullshit.
And, like the house boats, its a sympton. It only goes away if you treat the root cause.
ProDave
Well-Known Member
What the last few posts have described is the insane prices and over crowded of the south of England.
I grew up there and I didn't know better. I went through that was normal for my peers, spend and insane amount of money for an insanely small house and live in poverty for a few years until my salary rose to actually leave a little spare after paying the mortgage and essential bills to leave just a little spending money. The thought of owning a boat never crossed my mind, it was something for the rich, not me.
When I reached 40 I saw sense and moved to the Highlands. suddenly there was space, houses generally were bigger and a LOT cheaper, and for the first time in my life we were close to the sea. It was not long after moving here we bought our first boat, now on boat number 3. That boat lives in a small harbour with a thriving group of sailors in predominantly mid 20ft sailing boats, not paying much for our berths (compared to the south) making sailing an accessible activity for ordinary people.
Having gone through this cycle, if I knew now what I knew then, I would have left the over priced over crowded south of England at a much earlier age and started to have my better standard of life at a younger age. And that would be my advice now to anyone complaining they can't afford rent, let alone to buy and boat ownership is a distant dream.
My daughter, born up here, is comfortably able to rent a flat on not much more than minimum wage and is already saving for the deposit to buy a house some time soon. Sadly she did not take any interest in sailing.
I grew up there and I didn't know better. I went through that was normal for my peers, spend and insane amount of money for an insanely small house and live in poverty for a few years until my salary rose to actually leave a little spare after paying the mortgage and essential bills to leave just a little spending money. The thought of owning a boat never crossed my mind, it was something for the rich, not me.
When I reached 40 I saw sense and moved to the Highlands. suddenly there was space, houses generally were bigger and a LOT cheaper, and for the first time in my life we were close to the sea. It was not long after moving here we bought our first boat, now on boat number 3. That boat lives in a small harbour with a thriving group of sailors in predominantly mid 20ft sailing boats, not paying much for our berths (compared to the south) making sailing an accessible activity for ordinary people.
Having gone through this cycle, if I knew now what I knew then, I would have left the over priced over crowded south of England at a much earlier age and started to have my better standard of life at a younger age. And that would be my advice now to anyone complaining they can't afford rent, let alone to buy and boat ownership is a distant dream.
My daughter, born up here, is comfortably able to rent a flat on not much more than minimum wage and is already saving for the deposit to buy a house some time soon. Sadly she did not take any interest in sailing.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Ok...think of it this way...you are a mad keen soccer player....but the school has sold off the playing fields for a new housing estate....and the council has done the same thing with the public playing fields. All I’m saying is one day the rivers and estuary of your town, no matter where, will be home to another housing estate...and you will be crowed out of your hobby
dgadee
Well-Known Member
I hope your daughter considers herself a highlander.
oldbloke
Well-Known Member
You are not wrong, and we did similarly moving to the far south west. The trick however is to be able to do it and still be able to earn enough money
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Isn't housing the main issue down there?
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Sailing is both cash intensive and time intensive - two commdoties which are increasingly under pressure in modern life, so that young families are increasingly excluded from the sport.
Older boats in the sub £10k market are increasingly financially non-viable to refit against equivalent boats in good nick. A 25 footer in good shape which can be picked up 'ready to go' has a cash value often significantly less than the the same boat 'needing a bit of tlc' qv major refit. Yes you may be able to pick up a neglected example for next to nothing, but refitting may be 6 moths or a years work with a final cost well in excess of the market price for a good one. It doesnt take long for an older boat to decay into this category.
Further, the cost of disposing of old hulls is not insignificant, frequently running in to 4 figures even after selling off anything re-usable, when you include the cost of moving the the derelict to a boat disposal faciltiy. I was quoted £300 to collect and dispose of a damaged 10ft grp dinghy three years ago to a facility just 12 miles away. Probably nearer £500 now.
Damaged 10ft dnghy free to anyone who wants it, needs a lot of work! EBay is not an answer as it will just go and sit in someone elses garden....
Older boats in the sub £10k market are increasingly financially non-viable to refit against equivalent boats in good nick. A 25 footer in good shape which can be picked up 'ready to go' has a cash value often significantly less than the the same boat 'needing a bit of tlc' qv major refit. Yes you may be able to pick up a neglected example for next to nothing, but refitting may be 6 moths or a years work with a final cost well in excess of the market price for a good one. It doesnt take long for an older boat to decay into this category.
Further, the cost of disposing of old hulls is not insignificant, frequently running in to 4 figures even after selling off anything re-usable, when you include the cost of moving the the derelict to a boat disposal faciltiy. I was quoted £300 to collect and dispose of a damaged 10ft grp dinghy three years ago to a facility just 12 miles away. Probably nearer £500 now.
Damaged 10ft dnghy free to anyone who wants it, needs a lot of work! EBay is not an answer as it will just go and sit in someone elses garden....
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Sea Change
Well-Known Member
Do you not fancy copying Lakesailor and cutting it up in to pieces small enough to fit in the bin?
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Scotland’s population is increasing due to internal movement from south to north and apparently the rate of movement north is also increasing. The main reasons are lifestyle and cost of living. No doubt some will bring their sailing with them. Also a lot more European boats visiting Scotland, anecdotally. Marinas are around £560/m in the Clyde and £460/m around Oban. Much lower than the south, but rates took a big jump a couple of years ago. While Scotland’s sailing scene looks healthy, it may just be due to natural movement of people. Small yacht prices are very low now, with a significant drop over the last 3 years, where once a £10k yacht is now £3-5k as far as I can tell.
Predicting the future is always fraught with difficulties, but the cost of living pressures appear to be continuing, and the risk of wealth leaving the UK increasing. Indeed, it is a frequent subject on political talk shows, current affair shows. Apparently the middle classes are moving abroad in greater numbers.
The RYA are failing to promote cruising in yachts to any degree, which as an active member, is obvious to me and disappointing. Racing is such a bore, dancing to someone else’s tune, compared to cruising but the RYA can’t see that and are stuck in the racing rut. Cruising has so many benefits for physical and mental health and fits well with engaging with the natural world and distancing from societies stresses, broadens the mind, improves experiences.
All in all, I stand by my initial contribution to this thread and don’t see a significant growth forecast for sailing in Scotland or the UK.
Predicting the future is always fraught with difficulties, but the cost of living pressures appear to be continuing, and the risk of wealth leaving the UK increasing. Indeed, it is a frequent subject on political talk shows, current affair shows. Apparently the middle classes are moving abroad in greater numbers.
The RYA are failing to promote cruising in yachts to any degree, which as an active member, is obvious to me and disappointing. Racing is such a bore, dancing to someone else’s tune, compared to cruising but the RYA can’t see that and are stuck in the racing rut. Cruising has so many benefits for physical and mental health and fits well with engaging with the natural world and distancing from societies stresses, broadens the mind, improves experiences.
All in all, I stand by my initial contribution to this thread and don’t see a significant growth forecast for sailing in Scotland or the UK.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
They mostly seem to end up as planters at the first roundabout before you enter a village.
oldbloke
Well-Known Member
Only if you want to live in one of the honeypots with a sea view. Even then most of it isn't expensive by south eastern standards . The emotive problem is locals on relatively low earnings and London(ish) house prices. Obviously it's not as cheap as Scotland but is mostly OK.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Scotland - in the attractive parts - is not that cheap. Retirees move up, buy up the best, then the grandchildren are born and they move back down again, starting the cycle again.
There is also the move into short term letting. I notice that the North 500 has had a huge effect on housing availability. Even the prices charged for these have shot up in a year.
If you want cheaper, move to Northern Ireland. It is mostly white which appears to be an attraction to some who move.
Edit: The challenges of short term lets in rural housing communities | Chartered Institute of Housing
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
The idea of retiring and selling your expensive house down south to go and buy a few acres and a miniature mansion in the Highlands sounds great, until you realise there's nobody around to do low paid work (like looking after old people!) because there's nowhere left for them to live.
It's not sustainable to have a housing market that isn't representative of local earning potential.
It's not sustainable to have a housing market that isn't representative of local earning potential.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
So true. But very hard to arrive at sustainability.
In the centre of Edinburgh we have a housing crisis. Applications for STLs are refused by local planners, they appeal and external appellate system allows them.
The applications are a laugh, especially the economic arguments they use to support them. No mention of the cost to the taxpayer of homelessness and temporary accomodation.
Edit: and student blocks everywhere!
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
Imagine a world where everyone had a large house and a boat moored on the sea at the bottom of the garden - oh, that'll be Florida. No thanks!
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Except that is not happening. Most are buying ordinary, modern or new build houses in nice areas. A new housing estate in my home town, south of Glasgow, has quite a high number of folks that have moved up from down south, I think that is fairly representative.