Is ASAP expensive?

[Forbsie]

Having just received ASAP Supplies catalogue, I've just done a costing for marinising an XLD416 (Ford 1.6 Diesel). Chris771 reckons its around £600 but I'm at nearly £1100 and I haven't finished yet! Is it a good idea to shop around different suppliers for different bits? Any suggestions of cheaper supplier?

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[BarryH]

I've just had a look at www.lancingmarine.com In their secondhand section they have a VW 1500 rated at 40hp for £995.or a perkins 4107 for £1700, alto I think this will be to big. Both are already marinised and ready to install. Just a thought.

Right, the battery's charged and I'm orf. See you in a couple of weeks. Just pray the v***** holds out.

OK, to hell with it. Unbolt it and we'll use it as an anchor!

 

[Forbsie]

They haven't changed that list for ages. I phoned them in June asking about 20-40hp and the had nothing so they may have gone. I keep in touch with them periodically but nothing yet.

Have a great holiday. At least the weather is starting to look promising. /new/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[aztec]

personal exp' only.. i spent £116.00, on a cable.. £34.00 on a fitting kit. from a local firm (mainly due to the fact that i had to "match" the parts) subsequently requested the parts from ASAP. priced at £50.00 for the lot. i only hope that there was a mistake somewhere!. but i'd try them first next time.

marinisation parts are always gonna' be dear, nature of the beast, lancings have all the stuff for xld18, but check as manifolds are different to 1600's.

i'd go for raw water cooling, and spend the money you save on a spare engine.. if you ever need one.

regards, steve.

ahh say what you like.... what's done is done!

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[ccscott49]

Good point, if Forbsie is only going to use it on the Thames, why bother with freshwater cooling, the water is fresh(ish) anyway! With anode protection it would be fine. He could always have a hose fitting and tap, in the inlet line, and after running in brackish water, come back to his berth upriver and flush it out. Why didn't I think of this earlier, saves a bunch of money, he would still need a water cooled exhaust manifold, but not much else specialist stuff. Just a raw water pump and some piping!

 

[aztec]

do you think he would need a water cooled exhaust or use water injection kit, i'm doing the same conversion on my boat with twin diesels, but i was going to use water injection or lagging, what do you think?

ahh say what you like.... what's done is done!

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[ccscott49]

A water cooled exhaust is safer, for fire etc. I would not put a non watercooled exhaust in a boat. Lagging is just not enough. They use lagging for dry exhausts on fishing boats etc, but they are still normally water cooled manifolds. The manifolds glow red hot, being so close to the combustion process without cooling.

 

[Forbsie]

I was only looking at fresh water 'cause that's what is in there now but you're absolutely right, I don't need one. I may do a trip down the Thames and up the Crouch to visit my old yacht club but that would be the only time that she would be anywhere near the sea. I will start phoning round tomorrow for a raw water system. I should also know then about this possible engine.

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[chippie]

The other simple option is keel cooling which keeps the river water out of the engine. The exterior cooling tubes wouldnt affect performance much on a riverboat.
Just a thought.

 

[brianrunyard]

Take a look at http://www.lancingmarine.com/sdiesela.html
They do a complete kit for less than £600.
As others have said why not raw water cool, my 1967 volvo AQ105 has been raw water cooled all it's life, and is still going well, it's used in Poole Harbour (brackish) and Poole Bay (Sea water).
My intention is to marinise a Ford XLD 1.8 or 1.6 (lancing do parts for both) and replace it. I will only purchase the manifold/header tank/heat exchanger and raw water pump, total about £450.

Brian
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brunyard

 

[ccscott49]

good idea aswell! But still need the manifold. Raw water cooling is cheaper.

 

[Strathglass]

Brian, Lancing price does not include the following

4 engine mounts
2 fwd engine mount brackets
bellhousing with 2 engine mount brackets
adaptor plate from flywheel to gearbox spline
vacuum take off blanking adaptor take off
engine oil cooler for over 3600 rpm
I have converted and fitted two XLD418 in place of two BUIK? DV36 in a 13 ton steel cruiser and one XLD418 in my 33ft yacht.
Have photos if anyone wants to see them. Just PM with email
Iain

 

[aztec]

cheap is good, cheap and cool is better, i wouldn't use keel cooling.. not on yours.

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[Chris771]

Hi everyone,

Had no email for the past few days as the rig was moving location. It certainly does depend on just what bits you buy from suppliers. The price indication I gave was just for the Johnson Pump, Bowman Heat exchanger, exhaust injection bend, vacuum pump cover plate and adapting the flywheel. In my project I either made or modified everything else. For example all the freshwater pipework in a kit will take someone several hours to make up, which puts a lot of labour charge into it, or you can make the lot yourself with 22mm copper pipe and solder fittings from the local plumbers warehouse for about £10-15. Similarly with engine mounts, if the boat already has some it should not be difficult to use or modify them with a few pieces of 1/4" Steel plate about £2 at your local scrappie and a couple of hours with lekkie drill and file. Nice new purpose made hoses add a lot to the cost. Most of mine came from newish crashed cars at a breakers, just got lots of hoses of the correct diameter containing the shapes I needed and cut out the correct bends and length from them, including the clips cost £5. Obviously if you buy everything new in a kit with an instruction manual it will cost a fortune. You will only need to do about 2500-3000 rpm maximum to travel at river speeds and definitely do not need an oil cooler for that.

Likewise for all the special tools required for injection timing and cam belt timing, I made them, there are drawings for all of them in the Haynes Manual. The whole lot cost me about £3 and half a day to make. I think one of the major expenditures I had to shell out for was fitting the additional weight to the flywheel and doing the drilling tapping and balancing (my lathe was much too small) that cost me about £50. At the time I had just got divorced, visited the cleaners, had no money and plenty of time as I could not afford to go out. In those circumstances it is amazing what you can make or modify at next to no cost. It probably would cost me a lot more today as I could afford to buy things and would take the easy option rather than using my time.

By the time I had finished my engine it looked better than a lot of professionally marinised ones. Send me a PM with your email address Gordon and I will send you a few photographs.

Chris


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[Forbsie]

Welcome back online, Chris.

As you can see from the rest of the thread, I'm now looking at raw water cooling to save the cost of the header tank. I am also going to check what I already have against the ASAP list to see what I can re-use i.e. pipes, fittings, bends, etc.

BarryH kindly sent me an old copy of MBM with an excellent article on marinising an XLD416. Great pictures and instructions. Unfortunately, their cost was £2,000. If I can keep the whole lot under £1000, I'm happy. If it was £2k, I would rather either go for a new engine with a warranty or down grade to an outboard.

Got to drive to Brussels now but should be back tonight. As they would say in Aberdeen "It's a sair fecht for a half loaf".

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[chas]

I have just had a look at Lancing marine and the fresh water pump for my engine that Asap charged £45 for is listed at £70 under their "Bargains"

 

[Chris771]

Did you get the photos?

Gordon,

Did you get the photos I sent you? I accidentally hit the delete key rather than reply on your PM and had to email you from memory of what I had just read.

IF not please PM me again with your email address. Apologies for finger being faster than brain, it had been a tough shift on Wednesday.

Chris

www.impact-computers.net/boat/cruiser.htm

 

[Forbsie]

Re: Did you get the photos?

I certainly did, thanks Chris. I hope that my one will look that good after 7 years. I will be back on the case tomorrow going round breakers yards and since many didn't seem to be open last weekend, I'm taking Monday off as well just in case.

I was surprised by the awkward location of the oil filter. In the article it looks as if you would have to dismantle half the engine to change it. Maybe it's the way they photographed it or maybe it's 'cause I haven't a clue what I'm talking about. <G>

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[Chris771]

Re: Did you get the photos?

Gordon,
The oil filter is mounted right underneath where I have the alternator (see picture #4) it is the white thing. It is horizontally mounted and simply unscrews and slides out rearwards.

On the standard engine the alternator would be under the block on the other side. I changed the mounting as it was a seagoing boat and I did not want the alternator anywhere close to slopping salty bilgewater. With the alternator in the normal spot it is very easy to access.

With the high alternator it is a bit "compact~" but still easy to change as long as you have access to the starboard side of the engine. Nothing ever needed to be removed except the engine side cover. The way that engine was installed there was only about 8mm clearance in places, but boat engines do not jump around much as the mountings are a lot more solid than car mounts.

The engine was too big for the compartment. All the experts told me it could not be done. As an engineer, that was red rag to a bull and getting it in became a mission. With careful measurement it just barely went in, some easing of the cabin bulkhead was needed and the settee required raising by 50 mm to clear the height of the overhead cam (clearance above was 6 mm!), but went in it did.

Once examined by the disbelievers they went away muttering "Could never do that commercially, would take far too long" which was probably true.

We are having problems with the Malabo server at present and traffic is being limited so we may have trouble getting on line for a few days.

Chris

Chris

www.impact-computers.net/boat/cruiser.htm

 

[Forbsie]

Got an option on an engine

I got a call last night from TJ Marine. He has an 416 engine for me. 80,000 miles, good condition (seemingly) £350. I'm going to see it as soon as it can be arranged this weekend.

I'll go armed with all the great advice offered in this thread and hopefully will be ready to start marinising within days. )))

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