Is anyone in the Sunsail Ownership Scheme?

[peterb26]

I sailed recently with an investor who "owned" one of Sunsails yachts. (Think it was in Turkey?). He said the Sunsail scheme was the cheapest way of getting 2-3 months sailing each year wherever he wanted. Frankly at the time I was sceptical.

However he was very happy with the scheme (he was in year 3) and I had a look at it today out of curiosity. On the face of it - its quite attractive.

You buy the yacht and own the title - they guarantee 8% rental income for each of the 5.5 years and then you get the yacht at the end.

Plus you get 6 "bookable" weeks each year of sailing anywhere Sunsail operate - and 4 more "last minute" weeks. So 10 weeks in each year, with only the flight costs.

There are obvious things to worry about - and at the end of the day your yacht will be used for sunsail work, but nevertheless its still likely to be worth 30% of original value by the time its handed back. Possibly a tad more?

So the question is - does anyone here own a sunsail yacht? And are you happy as well?

Thanks in advance.

 

[oughtoc]

No good for anyone with kids at school. If you can take your weeks off peak then it seems to look a lot better.

 

[peterb26]

Our kids have kids at school! But SWMBO and I dont have to worry about this any more.

 

[benjenbav]

I looked at this about seven years ago. It didn't work for me first because I like to potter about and do things on my boats when I feel like it and without having to book the time in advance. Secondly, there is the old adage that nothing goes as fast as a rental car.

 

[peterb26]

In my case, I'd like to stay with my motorboat ownership - but I'd also like to do 2-3 months sailing as well.

I dont fancy forking out eight hundred or even a grand a week for ten weeks each year.

And I definitely dont want to "do things on two boats" - one is quite enough thanks!

Interestingly, Sunsail are asking about 60% of the original price for 5 year old ex-charter boats. So it may be sensible to assume that the residual is perhaps nearer 50% than 30% as I first thought.

Point taken about the rental car though. Hence the concern on the residual.........

 

[Slow_boat]

I looked at it with a friend and concluded that if you can take the time off work and you and SWMBO want to sail for every bit of holiday you can get, then it's worthwhile. Neither of us can.

It certainly didn't add up as a financial investment.

The downside is that at the end of the period you are left with a very ued boat of 'charter' spec. to either keep or sell onto a crowded market.

Pays your money and takes your choice.

 

[machurley22]

Old thread.

 

[Talbot]

[ QUOTE ]
The downside is that at the end of the period you are left with a very ued boat of 'charter' spec.

[/ QUOTE ]

i.e too many bunks and zero stowage space.

 

[DickB]

When you look at the state of some of the older charter yachts it would bring tears to my eyes to see 'my' yacht in that state, not to mention the bumps and chips off the gel coat from inexperienced skippers bumping there way into a mooring... Then at the end of it you have a tired vessel that needs a whoe bunch of work doing to it to get it up to scratch. Not for me I am afraid...

 

[peterb26]

Thanks for that link Silkie. Sounds like your friend was happy with the scheme.

I was really hoping that we would have some "sunsail owners" on here who might comment on how its working out for them.

Obviously anything you do involving boats is an expense and never an investment, but it seemed to me that this scheme just might offer "inexpensive sailing" for 10 weeks a year.

 

[ridgy]

Before treating it as inexpensive, don't forget the opportunity cost of giving sunsail your money.

To put it another way, if the boat cost 100k and you could get 5% on deposit, and paid 1k per week for charter then at the end of year you might have:

(100 - 10) * 1.05 = 94.5
(94.5 - 10) * 1.05 = 88.72
(88.72 - 10) * 1.05 = 82.66
(82.66 - 10) * 1.05 = 76.29
(76.29 - 10) * 1.05 = 70.27

So you still get 5 years of chartering.
Whenever you like.
With whatever company you like.
And anywhere you like.
And if you get bored of sailing, you can cancel the deal at any time.
And at the end of it, if you still really really wanted to own a shagged charter boat, you could go and buy one for 40-50k.
And spend the rest fixing it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[AlanPound]

[ QUOTE ]
Interestingly, Sunsail are asking about 60% of the original price for 5 year old ex-charter boats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. Well, "original price" presumably is round about the RRP of the boat - ie. what you actually pay them.

You could be fairly sure though that given the number of boats they buy, they get a handsome discount on RRP (especially as they would buy direct from the manufacturer - no dealer margin in there) .... discounted to around 60% maybe?

Its easy to see how this business would be attractive to Sunsail, whether they buy the boats themselves, or they persuade you to...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Always struck me if ownership of a charter yachts is such a jolly good thing, you'd expect Sunsail, et al, to arrange their own finance and take the boats into 100% ownership. After all, if they're buying at retail less 20% (say) and selling at retail less 40% after 5 years of revenue earning, and depreciation accounting, they'd be laughing all the way to the FTSE100.

Something doesn't stack up

 

[peterb26]

Thanks for all the comments and thoughts. Very interesting.

I reckon the sunsail owners are a shy lot! I have had PMs from them - all in a positive light as well.

Seems the "norm" that Sunsail will offer you 40% of original price at the end of the 5.5 year term. So you can walk away with 40k of your original 100k (and no hassle), or you can spend time, money and effort tarting it up in the hope of getting more.

In my case, I'm retired and I certainly dont do "hassle" any more, so I could work the 40k back into my spreadsheet. (And I'm pretty sure you'd have to pay the VAT on the 40k as well at that point).

 

[Twister_Ken]

So, on a £100K yacht, effectively you're buying 5 years x 10 weeks sailing for £60K, plus loss of interest (say 5 years at 5% pa ignoring compounding = £25K) plus airfares?

So £85K plus flights for 50 weeks sailing. Have I got that right, and if so is £1700 a week a good deal?

 

[peterb26]

I think you've missed out the 44k interest in the 5 years Ken?

 

[ridgy]

I think it still works out at:

100 - 60 (depreciation) + 44 (income) - 27.5 (interest) = 60.5k

So you're paying 10k for the "benefit" of being tied to Sunsail, for weeks that may not be convenient.

Not trying to put you off or anything /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gothik29]

I know a couple who have just come to the end of their 5 year ownership. They did a lot of research before they committed to this arrangement, the first being visiting the base where your boat would be kept. They initially looked at the Ionian, but then changed to Sporades. Their reasoning for this was that they watched a typical sunsail fleet at both bases and in their opinion more 'beginners' opt for Ionian than some other bases.

Therefore if you can find a base where more experienced people charter, you might stand a better chance of the boat being in better condition after five years.

It seemed to work for them, as their boat was reasonable after five years, whereas I've been on some two year old boats which were definitely showing signs of wear and tear.

 

[peterb26]

I'm by no means committed to this - although I am committed to getting some more sailing and keeping my Mobo!

Just discovered that a couple moored just 50 yards from me are Sunsail owners so am going to chat to them tonight.

 

[Davy_S]

I can assure you that the rigging is always in good condition, or replaced regularly,
When I watch them hit the quayside daily with a thud the mast shudders all the way down, but always stays up! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif