Is a shrug enough?

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Marsupial

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Three times in the recent past out of three arrivals of such craft, our tranquil marina has been subjected to classic boat syndrome. The best debacle left a yacht riding up a pontoon by the bow and pinned under the opposite pontoon by the stern, in the most recent (today) a long keeled craft zigzagged down the trots hitting at least four boats before it managed to turn by pivoting on the stern of a westerly. Arriving doesn’t seem to be a problem for these things but leaving certainly is. After bouncing off a few boats and pontoons all the skippers offered a shrug and a comment like “it doesn’t go backwards very well its got a long keel you know” my reply is “shame the you don’t know what a warp is, and do you have any plans to get a skipper that understands boating?” Offers of assistance on departure were rejected by all the owners who went on to cause havoc. I am well aware that there by the grace of god go I but really, chaps if your boat is a pig astern and help is available why not take it? Yes, I am a ware that a couple of you found my plastic French boat offensive, but your behaviour has won you no friends, none of you stopped to inspect the damage you caused. A shrug is not enough!
 
Plastic it may be ... French it certainly is ... but they are still nice boats ... I just hope mine might grow up to be as long! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Three times in the recent past out of three arrivals of such craft...

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You do seem to be having the most incredible bad luck in your marina.

I can't remember when I last saw a long-keeler hit anything. Apart from an occassion about 8 years ago when I gave my neighbour a little scrape when stupidly trying to execute a manouvre, in a very strong wind, that would have failed in any kind of boat. A bottle of whisky more than compensated for the damage to his paint.

However, last Saturday, in a marina at Emsworth, within one hour I saw two lightweight plastic boats strike their neighbours when leaving their berths in a cross wind. In both cases they were trying to back out from an upwind finger and their bows were blown onto the side of the boat downwind of them. Use of a warp would have prevented it and, failing that, a fender would at least have ensured no damage.
 
As Conrad said, "it's not the ships, it's the men that's in them." With a bit of experience, anyone can learn to handle their boat well enough to avoid hitting stationary objects, most of the time. And any overconfident idiot can mishandle the most docile of boats. That, and long-keeled boats tend to be heavier than their modern counterparts which allows maneuvres under power to be carried out more slowly. At least that's what I always do: if it really does all go pear-shaped, a gentle coming together at a knot or less rarely causes more than embarrassment. The only thing I've ever hit with any force, apart from mud under the keel, was a pontoon. But that's a long story involving control cables and gearboxes.
 
There is NO excuse for poor seamanship, use lots of fenders and warps.
There is NO excuse for damaging somebody elses boat, use lots of fenders and warps.
There is NO excuse for manouvering in tight spaces, if your boat cannot or the skipper cannot handle it, as above, or dont do it.
There is NO excuse for "shrugging your shoulders" when you do damage somebodies boat, you pay! Or your insurance pays.

Rant over, from a classic boat owner who's boat is a pig to handle.
 
>The only thing I've ever hit with any force, apart from mud under the keel, was a pontoon. But that's a long story involving control cables and gearboxes. <

Funny, that's exactly my experience as well! Motoring astern into a fuel pontoon you've just left can cause embarrassment.
 
I have a bow truster - never needed to use it yet!!! mainly there for people who expect to manouver without steerage way on.

Yes I could have done with one on my old Victory - but the new one handles like a dream....
 
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There is NO excuse for manouvering in tight spaces, if your boat cannot or the skipper cannot handle it, as above, or dont do it.

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I agree with the other points, but preventing anyone with less than perfect boat handling skills from going into a harbour is plain stupid. Experience is the best teacher, and that means making mistakes. As long as they're made gently, no harm usually comes of it. Like you, I believe, I learned how to handle my boat the old-fashioned - way by doing it. And if I see someone make a hash of it, then I can still remember when I was in their shoes. Sometimes not so long ago either /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif to err is human.
 
I found problems always arose when I tried to put my long keeler in the marina berth allocated over the VHF, by someone trying to be helpful and do their job, but with little idea of the handling characteristics of my boat.

Now I stick it in the most suitable berth, given conditions of wind and tide, that is in the vague area of where i was told, and then ask to leave it there, or warp it over. Far less stress.
 
As the owner of a long keel, doesn't do reverse, heavy displacement boat, I have a lot of sympathy for others in the same position. A shrug only works if you're French. Lighten up, we all make mistakes from time to time. That said, you pays your money (for the boat) and makes your choice and if this means you damage other peoples AWBs, you or your insurance company smile and cough up. I have been blamed for dammaging a boat in a marina on a day it wasn't moved, simply because the guy who did the dammage Foxtrot-Oscared without leaving a note and I had the only long keel boat on the trot......it's not all one way you know.

Personally, I have found that if you tell marina staff they'll allocate a suitable berth and/or come down to the pontoon to help.

Of course there are places where this doesn't work (Cherbourg or Cowes Yacht Haven for example). Sadly the guys who design, build and/or run marinas often only sail modern, overengined, lighly constructed fin or bilge keelers, if they sail anything, and besides, tight berths mean more of them and more income.
 
My MAB goes astern but will not steer astern. However, I've only hit anything (a pontoon in Bradwell marina) once, and that was when I was warping into a space up tide and astern of me. Witnessed by a forumite. I hadn't lashed the tiller, see!

Marinas are pretty hateful places at the best of times and one of the many things they have in common with their shore side cousin, the car park, is they are designed to cram in as many modern boats (or vehicles) as possible, leaving little room to manouver older boats (or vehicles). As long as one remembers this and plans accordingly, the easier it all becomes.
 
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A bowthruster can help with the more impossible situations, too.

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Not many classic boat owners are willing to fit one of those abominations though. And quite rightly so.
 
The old Lizzie_B would not steer going astern until she had built up considerable speed, and in forward she would only turn tight to port and wide to starboard.

Most boats are predictable and you plan accordingly. Her weight certainly allowed me to move far more slowly than most AWBs, especially when conditions were gusty.

I never hit anything or anybody.

Sometimes the frequent forward reverse changes when slowly turning her in a tight spot would get the odd nervous AWB berth holder reaching for the fenders if they didn't understand that you just have to be patient with such boats. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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