Is a Delta Anchor OK for hardish mud? E.g. Chichester Harbour?

I’ve anchored many times in Newtown creek with a ‘fake’ 16kg Delta on a 37ft Jeanneau. Sets and holds like a dream. Last time (two weeks ago) didn’t move an inch in 30 kts. Plenty of others there with deltas too.
 
In answer to Neeves reply above, he is right that a lot of mud sticks to it but I leave it, some of it drops off, some doesn’t but it still seems to set fine.
 
I note several users of Deltas remain positive about theirs, and it would probably do the job for you well enough - most of the time. However, even more individuals suggest that the French 'Kobra 2' gives noticeably better performance. This is also a 'modestly-priced' item and I'd encourage you to consider it actively.

This thread has some helpful comments - Kobra 2 anchor any good?

I'd also recommend doubling the available warp in your 'mixed rode' set up - I'm quite certain you'll want to use that a few times.
 
Several years ago, when I used to frequent Chichester Harbour I often had problems getting my Delta anchor to set. Particularly in mud to the East of East Head, where a skin of soft lubricating mud covers a much denser substrate. So, I invested in a Rocnor anchor, expecting all my problems to be resolved. My first attempts at anchoring with the “new” anchor proved to be a failure as to my chagrin it persisted on skidding across the mud. That was my Damascus moment, when I realised that the blame for my anchoring problems lay at my door, not at that of the anchors. A thorough appraisal and ensuing revision of my technique has transformed my success at anchoring and proven to me that there is no “magic” anchor.
Mike.
 
neil_s said:
I have a 28 foot 6 tonner and anchor a lot in Chi harbour. I have a 25lb CQR and, apart from one incident where I tried to anchor on hard shingle, have not dragged it. For a peaceful night, I would recommend anchoring a bit further up Thorney creek.
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Just be aware I have seen boats come ashore at Prinsted having blown down the Thorney channel even though it does dry out and it was attached to mooring block☠️☠️
 
A few years ago I bent the shank on my danforth on holiday and the largest anchor I could find at the time was a 10kg delta. According to the specs it was a correct size for my 9m cat. It looked to small so replaced it with a 16kg rocna after the holday which was recommended by the rocna website, so the delta became a kedge. Last year the electric windlass packed up on holiday so I reverted to the delta as easier to lift, etc. Anchored in the Helford up by Frenchman's creek in lovely mud during an easterly gale the delta gave up holding and we started to drift up at nearly 2 knots. The delta had 5m of 8mm chain and 14mm polyester warp. I had a ratio of around 6 to 1 out at the time. Managed to retrieve the delta and put the ronca out. As soon as it touched the bottom it started to hold but gave it around 4 to 1 ratio. Until then I had been impressed by the delta but this was mainly in sand, etc.

Whether a Heavier delta would have been better I don't know, but I have been impressed by how the rocna just stops my boat dead when anchoring.
 
Zagato said:
I mainly anchor at Pilsey Island also at the bottom of Itchenor reach, East head very occasionally and New Town Creek. Would a Delta anchor be ok for this, I have never had one before. A Rocna sounds great but is three times the price. I have used claw anchors and Danforths before with OK results but they don,t dig in much, possibly as I have small boats, the weight of chain probably holds them mostly!

I only have a small IF Boat 26' 2.5 tonnes but was thinking of going with a 10KG Delta, 30m of 8mm chain and maybe 20m of rode. I would love to be able to anchor off one day in Studland Bay without having to be drugged up on Stugeron so perhaps more chain would be better. What do you think. Thanks...

The boat came from Torpoint with a 5KG claw anchor plus 10m of 8mm chain and 15m of rope, maybe for anchoring at Cawsands!
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Our delta doesnt drag! thick mud especially. the boss goes to the bow, I shout drop, put her in tickover reverse and she pays the chain out. 5 times depth, the chain statts to lift and tighten with her foot on it. We come to a stop, the chain lifts and goes tight, I then give it 1500 revs and it is set! Thats it! Culatra in Portugal, notorious for dragging boats and 20-25 kts in the afternoon, not an issue. I watched a mate with a new fangled one, miles oversize, (why do they buy oversized ones? ) in Culatra and Portimao try and try and try! We sat their smug!
 
Many thanks for all your answers, nothing like real world experience.

So Kobra 2, Delta and Rocna (spade is out at £375) and more warp. Veering towards Rocna but will look properly at Kobra. I will probably stick with 8mm chain as it suits my windlass but will look into 6mm. I should also butch up and maybe get a six kg anchor not a ten!

I did buy a Fortess FX7 off a "friend" for my tiny 750kg Drascombe. I couldn,t get it to set in Newtown Creek, I think it was just sailing in the water, bit of a drama! The friendly scottish guy that takes the mooring dues saw me in a pickle and explained he has the exact same anchor but uses much heavier chain (I had 6mm). I thought surely that negates the point of having a light anchor. I remember my friend complaining about the Fortress himself as it would not set Doh! Having to adjust it for differing sea beds is a PITA. My Danforths digs into my veg patch and lawn when dragged along, the Fortress does not because the underside angled lip on the flukes keeps the points slightly above the ground.
 
Zagato,

Don't bother with my suggestion of 6mm chain - its a non starter. I had not realised you had a windlass. The gypsy on a windlass are made to be chain size specific, your 8mm gypsy will not accept 6mm chain. Gypsies are expensive, very. Stick with 8mm chain - though why you have 8mm chain with a 2.5t 26' yacht is something of a mystery (similar mystery to why do people buy oversize anchors). If you were to retire the windlass, cannot imagine why, maybe to save on that gym membership - then consider 6mm chain.

Jonathan
 
Hi Zigato,
I used a 15lb CQR for ten years on that boat, not ideal but it worked. I think any 10kg modern anchor is oversized for the job.

My 2p: I would get a 7Kg Manson Supreme hitched to a long length of 6mm chain ( just read the above stick with 8mm unless you can get a replacement gypsy, it's crazy oversized though), about 30 or 40m would be fine unless you intend to visit the Channel Isles ( you don't want rope as you will have to bring it on deck each time, etc, etc). I have a Rocna myself which would be fine as well.

On a swinging mooring having the thing on the bow is poor even if you have a double roller so have a thought about how it could be lashed on the foredeck - another reason to avoid a 10Kg lump.

.
 
I believe that the 10kgs ( and lower weights ) Kobra is a MK1 'foldable' model and not available fixed as a MK2.
I have recently bought one to complement my FX11 It's proving excellent in hard mud where yes it brings up a matching weight of the stuff when broken out.
A quick visual comparison with a nearby Delta suggests to me that the blades are turned a few more degrees at one of the facets as well as being slightly wider.
I have seen elsewhere that the Kobra is poorly finished and I can only agree with this.In particular the arrises on blade and shank are left sharp before galvanising .

Yes I find the only flaw with the FX11 ,which sticks like glue and is easy to pass through the pushpit/furler gap,is that it 'flies' in the watercolumn even on its 8mm chain.Once down it will hold in high winds but is tricky to get down quick enough as the bow falls away.Holding station would overcome this but not when you are single handed.
 
We use a FX16 set at 30 degrees and a FX 37 set at 45 degrees with 15m of 6mm chain + rope - deployed off the bow or from a dinghy, no issues, no drama.

Zagato - does your Fortress have mud flaps?

Jonathan
 
zoidberg said:
I note several users of Deltas remain positive about theirs, and it would probably do the job for you well enough - most of the time. However, even more individuals suggest that the French 'Kobra 2' gives noticeably better performance. This is also a 'modestly-priced' item and I'd encourage you to consider it actively.

This thread has some helpful comments - Kobra 2 anchor any good?

I'd also recommend doubling the available warp in your 'mixed rode' set up - I'm quite certain you'll want to use that a few times.
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I’m intrigued by “noticeably better performance” - what does that mean?
 
Zagato said:
I mainly anchor at Pilsey Island also at the bottom of Itchenor reach, East head very occasionally and New Town Creek. Would a Delta anchor be ok for this, I have never had one before. A Rocna sounds great but is three times the price. I have used claw anchors and Danforths before with OK results but they don,t dig in much, possibly as I have small boats, the weight of chain probably holds them mostly!

I only have a small IF Boat 26' 2.5 tonnes but was thinking of going with a 10KG Delta, 30m of 8mm chain and maybe 20m of rode. I would love to be able to anchor off one day in Studland Bay without having to be drugged up on Stugeron so perhaps more chain would be better. What do you think. Thanks...

The boat came from Torpoint with a 5KG claw anchor plus 10m of 8mm chain and 15m of rope, maybe for anchoring at Cawsands!
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Hardish mud is perhaps the easiest substrate and the differences between anchor models is diminished.

The real beauty of the best new generation anchors is their ability in more difficult substrates such as weed and hard sand.

However, anchors are not expensive in relationship to the cost of the boat and the freedom they allow, so if you plan to anchor frequently at least consider some of the better and unfortunately more expensive designs even though in a typical mud substrate the differences are small.

The best general purpose primary anchors in my view are the Mantus M1, Rocna, steel Spade, and Manson Supreme. There are some new designs that are promising, but it will take some time before these can be properly evaluated.

If you want to reduce costs, and are prepared to sacrifice some versatility and performance,the Kobra and Bugel are probably the best options. The Kobra is reasonably good in hard mud. The main limitation is that if you encounter any soft or very soft mud the convex plough design with a limited fluke area is less competent. The other problem is that the 10kg or smaller model is only available in the Kobra 1 design, which has a poor folding mechanism. If you can scale up, the 12kg model is available with the Kobra 2 design, which has a much better folding mechanism secured with a bolt.

The Bugel design does not have many of the refinements of the newer roll bar anchors such as the Mantus M1 and Rocna, but is a reasonably good anchor at a bargain price. However, there are many manufacturers of this style of anchor. Some are better than others so you need to check the geometry and construction quality etc carefully. It helps that it very simple design (just 2 flat pieces of steel and a round bar) . This diminishes the risk mistakes compared to sophisticated designs such as the Bruce which has many complex curves. An example of a Bugel would be the SKORPIO Bugel, which is a HHP certified anchor (I would still check the anchor carefully yourself) and is advertised for less than €80 for the 9kg model. For a cruising yacht, anchoring gear is not the area to try and save money, but It is not always practical to follow this advice.
 
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Boathook said:
A few years ago I bent the shank on my danforth on holiday and the largest anchor I could find at the time was a 10kg delta. According to the specs it was a correct size for my 9m cat. It looked to small so replaced it with a 16kg rocna after the holday which was recommended by the rocna website, so the delta became a kedge. Last year the electric windlass packed up on holiday so I reverted to the delta as easier to lift, etc. Anchored in the Helford up by Frenchman's creek in lovely mud during an easterly gale the delta gave up holding and we started to drift up at nearly 2 knots. The delta had 5m of 8mm chain and 14mm polyester warp. I had a ratio of around 6 to 1 out at the time. Managed to retrieve the delta and put the ronca out. As soon as it touched the bottom it started to hold but gave it around 4 to 1 ratio. Until then I had been impressed by the delta but this was mainly in sand, etc.

Whether a Heavier delta would have been better I don't know, but I have been impressed by how the rocna just stops my boat dead when anchoring.
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Any anchor can fail if it picks up something on the seabed, fouls its chain etc.
Unless you can dive on it and see what's going on, an isolated failure doesn't always tell you much.
 
TernVI said:
Any anchor can fail if it picks up something on the seabed, fouls its chain etc.
Unless you can dive on it and see what's going on, an isolated failure doesn't always tell you much.
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We had, on a previous boat, a 40lbs genuine Bruce. It was faultless for six years until one day in Osbourne Bay where we stopped for a lunch hook.

After three goes I retrieved it completely, not just clear of the seabed.

It had a round boulder completely blocking the point and flanks jammed between there and the shank!

So, it failed to set, but for a very good reason.

Nothing wrong with the anchor at all.................................
 
TernVI said:
Any anchor can fail if it picks up something on the seabed, fouls its chain etc.
Unless you can dive on it and see what's going on, an isolated failure doesn't always tell you much.
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It came up covered in mud only. We must have dragged 200 yards before we realised what was happening, thinking why are those other boats coming towards us ! I'm glad that I anchored with plenty of room between us.
 
Many thanks for your feedback folks, makes decisions easier and more informed.

ANCHOR...Having looked today at the shortlist of choices at Force 4 cnandlers I have decided to go for a Rocna. They only had the 10KG version which is pretty big surely for my light 2500KG 26' IF Boat. Understanding Rocnas size chart is tricky for such a light Boat a 8m. The kids at Force4 (manager not present could not help). I am hoping a 6KG version would suffice but am ok with 10KG which is what I am used to hauling up by hand.

RODE... having seen 30m of 8mm chain in the shop weighing 45KG it is clear that is not possible for my little boat and surely not necessary. Looking at comments, 6mm is quite adequate I hope, says 2500kg breaking strain on the Jimmey Green site! The South Pacific windlass has an 8mm gypsey however. I would much prefer to just haul the lot into a chain locker by hand which is what I am used to and keep things simple. Shame I don,t have a chain locker with an open flap just a hole for the windlass to feed the chain and rope down. It does feed down rope as well apparently. Need to think on that one but in the meantime...

How little chain, rope can I get away with for Chi Harbour and maybe Studland. I wonder if I can get away with 20 meters of chain and then rope making it up to perhaps 50 meters in total!? Especially if I stuck with 8mm chain with the thinking that I may get away with less chain if it is heavier!

'Neeves' the Fortress is as in the pictures, not sure about mudflats! If I kept it as a kedge anchor on my 10m 6mm and 35m of rope that would be great. Need to practice with it maybe AND have more chain weight!
 
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Zagato said:
Many thanks for your feedback folks, makes decisions easier and more informed.

ANCHOR...Having looked today at the shortlist of choices at Force 4 cnandlers I have decided to go for a Rocna. They only had the 10KG version which is pretty big surely for my light 2500KG 26' IF Boat. Understanding Rocnas size chart is tricky for such a light Boat a 8m. The kids at Force4 (mama get not present could not help). I am hoping a 6KG version would suffice but am ok
With 10KG which is what I am used to hauling up by hand.

RODE... having seen 30m of 8mm chain in the shop weighing 45KG it is clear that is not possible for my little boat and surely not necessary. Looking at comments, 6mm is quite adequate I hope, says 2500kg breaking strain on the Jimmey Green site! The bloody South Pacific windlass has an 8mm gypsey however. I would much prefer to just haul the lot into a chain locker by hand which is what I am used to and keep things simple. Shame I don,t have a chain locker with an open flap just a hole for the windlass to feed the chain and rope down. It does feed down rope as well aparantly. Need to think on that one but in the meantime...

How little chain, rope can I get away with for Chi Harbour and maybe Studland. I wonder if I can get away with 20 meters of chain and then rope making it up to perhaps 50 meters in total!? Especially if I stuck with 8mm chain...
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I would be fine with 3 or 4 metres of chain. The only value of chain is avoiding chafe.
 
When anchoring in the Solent (and Studland/Poole) it is very rare that I would deploy more than about 20 metres of 8mm chain. I carry 40 metres.
In a Folkboat I would be more than happy with 10m of chain backed up by an octoplait warp (14mm). The channel off Pilsey is one of the deeper anchorages in the local area (although looking at the chart it only shows as maybe 4 or 5 metres, I think it is deeper) where I may deploy more than 20 metres if it's blowing any.
 
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