Piers
Well-Known Member
Indeed - and guess what? The ghastly generator start-up oil fall-out went all over Play d'eau requiring a full soft-wash as well.....
Iron filings all over Play d'eau
- Thread starter Piers
- Start date
Indeed - and guess what? The ghastly generator start-up oil fall-out went all over Play d'eau requiring a full soft-wash as well.....
petem
Well-Known Member
Eeek. Is it like that all over? I hate to see what the other, worse affected boat was like.
Piers
Well-Known Member
Yes, all over. Some areas worse than others. Re the Aquastar, we are meeting them tonight so I'll ask if they have any pics they can let me have.
wellf100
Well-Known Member
What about that Princess 82?
Piers
Well-Known Member
...and a large Fairline, an Oyster, and, and, and....
Marine Reflections
Well-Known Member
Good pictures Piers, great focus.
I hope that all is rectified to your satisfaction.
Do mention or introduce Iron X to the guys with the difficult task of removing, it will certainly help loosen the bonding and be safer for Play d'eau's gel coat and could possibly be the only method for the non slip and teak.
I hope that all is rectified to your satisfaction.
Do mention or introduce Iron X to the guys with the difficult task of removing, it will certainly help loosen the bonding and be safer for Play d'eau's gel coat and could possibly be the only method for the non slip and teak.
Elessar
Well-Known Member
Crikey. I’m so used the hearing the phrase “all over”....
Eg “you have got crumbs all over the floor” which when translated means “there are 3 crumbs on the floor”. Apologies to the singletons who won’t know what I’m talking about.
Anyway, there really are filings “all over” and I can’t believe the operator of the grinder/cutter/whatever wasn’t aware. Properly negligent.
Getting it out of the non skid will be particularly bothersome.
Spray salt water over the bits they’ve done as that will show up any bits they’ve missed that haven’t rusted yet.
Eg “you have got crumbs all over the floor” which when translated means “there are 3 crumbs on the floor”. Apologies to the singletons who won’t know what I’m talking about.
Anyway, there really are filings “all over” and I can’t believe the operator of the grinder/cutter/whatever wasn’t aware. Properly negligent.
Getting it out of the non skid will be particularly bothersome.
Spray salt water over the bits they’ve done as that will show up any bits they’ve missed that haven’t rusted yet.
MrB
Well-Known Member
Was the "contractor" a real contractor, fully insured, or just casual labour who happened to own a grinder doing a favor for the marina for a few quid? This sounds like it's going to be a very expensive bill for the marina considering how many boats are involved.
Piers
Well-Known Member
In fact, there were two contractors. One working on the easterly part of the marina, the other on the westerly part under which Play d'eau was conveniently moored. Both are real and major contractors in Guernsey.
It's really beyond unbelievable. The work on the east pontoon and new wave break took weeks and the contractor would have seen the damage being done to the boats in the near vicinity.
Thanks for the reminder. In talking with Fleming, they recommended not to Iron X due to the make up of the gel they used on Flemings up to about 2008.
Piers
Well-Known Member
I met with the Aquastar owners last night and they will be sending me some pics. I'm also going to photograph where one of the contractors was working which apparently is covered in rusting filings. Will report later.
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
JFM- There is something I keep thinking about vis a vis marina contracts which you haven't mentioned but which might be relevant to any future reader of this thread (assuming such reader can avoid the turmoil and distractions). What about the consumer protection legislation? I am thinking of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. I actually studied the first of these when the Act was passed, I've never read the other two. If Play d'eau had been berthed in a UK marina I think Piers could have relied on these. I have a friend whose boat was damaged by negligent operation of a boat lift. The marina refused to discuss any claim and relied on the exclusion clauses in their contract. I told my friend that so far as this event was concerned he was definitely a consumer because his boat was used for private recreational purposes only and if the marina had indeed been negligent (which he would have to prove) they wouldn't be able to rely on their contract. Was I right?
jfm
Well-Known Member
Not really. Uk and Guernsey both have significant law on this topic. Those laws provide lots of things but they don't change the answer here. They provide automatically and regardless of what the contract says merchantable quality, fitness for purpose and "same as sample", and they provide that you cannot disclaim liability for personal injury, and all sorts of things. But they do not interfere with contractual clauses that limit liability for damage to property so are not relevant here. When you hand in your coat at the hotel cloakroom before dinner and it says "coats left at owners risk" that is generally fully effective legally.
As regards your boat you should imho always ensure your own insurance covers damage/drops and not rely (for lots of reasons, not just this) on an assumption you can claim from a negligent crane operator. Your insurer might pursue the marina on a subrogated basis but that's fine- you just walk away with you £2m cheque or whatever and leave them to have that fight
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Marine Reflections
Well-Known Member
"Thanks for the reminder. In talking with Fleming, they recommended not to Iron X due to themake up of the gel they used on Flemings up to about 2008."
Perhaps they were thinking of an Oxalic based product? I wonder what the change was that was so dramatic to the porousity? Your gelcoat looks good to me.
I seem to recall you mentioning the same sentence but reffering to Oxalic acid? It is difficult to tell with all the editing on the thread, Oxalic is a very different animal.
Just to be clear, Iron X and most other fall out removers are PH neutral and acid free, completely safe to use on gelcoat of all types. Sticks neck firmly out...
Given that currently this removal is being painstakingly undertaken with sharp implements, then polish on a cloth, I would have thought using a fall out remover would be the first choice for readers, as was mentioned on the first page by a few forumites.
Don't want to drift the thread any more as it has been chopped about enough and it is an excellent resouce for others in the same legal boat, this should be the main focus.
But, with others just looking to remove a few spots themselves I can't resist showing a small video of a DIY'er using an Iron fallout remover, this one happens to be Sonax, so you can see how it works on very bad contamiation. Then I'm zipping my mouth, promise.
MrB
Well-Known Member
"Thanks for the reminder. In talking with Fleming, they recommended not to Iron X due to themake up of the gel they used on Flemings up to about 2008."
Perhaps they were thinking of an Oxalic based product? I wonder what the change was that was so dramatic to the porousity? Your gelcoat looks good to me.
I seem to recall you mentioning the same sentence but reffering to Oxalic acid? It is difficult to tell with all the editing on the thread, Oxalic is a very different animal.
Just to be clear, Iron X and most other fall out removers are PH neutral and acid free, completely safe to use on gelcoat of all types. Sticks neck firmly out...
Given that currently this removal is being painstakingly undertaken with sharp implements, then polish on a cloth, I would have thought using a fall out remover would be the first choice for readers, as was mentioned on the first page by a few forumites.
Don't want to drift the thread any more as it has been chopped about enough and it is an excellent resouce for others in the same legal boat, this should be the main focus.
But, with others just looking to remove a few spots themselves I can't resist showing a small video of a DIY'er using an Iron fallout remover, this one happens to be Sonax, so you can see how it works on very bad contamiation. Then I'm zipping my mouth, promise.
I just watched that video and disagree with washing and drying the car before using the fall-out remover, that will scratch the car. Far better to use beforehand then snow foam to lift the particles then wash and dry after.
Marine Reflections
Well-Known Member
Agree, I wouldn't wash something that was covered in metal particles either.
Video was just to show the fallout remover working.
Piers
Well-Known Member
The owners of Temerity came to their boat, and unexpectedly saw this:
...you can see the mole and where the contractor had been grinding and cutting the iron girders for the new swell-break and pontoon girders (see left and right). Temerity is on the right.
The contractor returned, this time armed with a blanket to try and stop the filings being blown around. Sadly, the wind was gusty (SE F4). Trying to control matters was ineffective:
...you can see the mole and where the contractor had been grinding and cutting the iron girders for the new swell-break and pontoon girders (see left and right). Temerity is on the right.
The contractor returned, this time armed with a blanket to try and stop the filings being blown around. Sadly, the wind was gusty (SE F4). Trying to control matters was ineffective:
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
That’s awful .
I wonder if they could have used a torch ? —— with precaution s as well
We’ve being over the last 3 years undergoing replacement of the steel beams , raising the hieght ( global warming apparently) and renewing the service boxes .
They have done them all now and somehow managed not to my knowledge to damage anybody’s boat .
They laid temp moorings and moved boats away while they emptied a jetty to work on .
So with a little thought and planning or in today’s speak “risk assessment “ It can be done .
Just posting this to show how much of an outliner if that’s the correct term ,Piers marina seems to be .
In other words to get a barometer on similiar marina works and boat damage - what’s the norm ?
How do the rest do it ?
https://imgur.com/a/NWr2L
I wonder if they could have used a torch ? —— with precaution s as well
We’ve being over the last 3 years undergoing replacement of the steel beams , raising the hieght ( global warming apparently) and renewing the service boxes .
They have done them all now and somehow managed not to my knowledge to damage anybody’s boat .
They laid temp moorings and moved boats away while they emptied a jetty to work on .
So with a little thought and planning or in today’s speak “risk assessment “ It can be done .
Just posting this to show how much of an outliner if that’s the correct term ,Piers marina seems to be .
In other words to get a barometer on similiar marina works and boat damage - what’s the norm ?
How do the rest do it ?
https://imgur.com/a/NWr2L
Cheery
Well-Known Member
Just as they used to take photgraphs like this, surely it's not beyond the wit of man to develop a 21st century version for cutting and grinding near sensitive areas, to include air supply for the engineer.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Judging from how the fall out went all over the place, I don't dare thinking how much of that stuff ended inside the throats and lungs of those two chaps.
Not that this changes anything - neither for their health nor for the boats - but blaming the workers for their indifference towards boats means getting the wrong end of the stick, imho.
If anything, it's sheer ignorance which is to be blamed, here... :ambivalence:
petem
Well-Known Member
Why do you say that? Surely they could see the fallout glowing in the air and I would have thought it might occur to them to go and have a look to see if it was falling on neighbouring boats? I could say the same about the marina staff. To me this just looks like incompetence and / or people not giving a toss.
If I was Piers, I'd be half a mind to ask the police to consider charging the contractors / the marine for criminal damage!