IPS woes ( again )

[Portofino]

Hi all ,
I helping a new friend with a IPS 600 D6 powered boat .
It’s his 1 st season and really 1 st proper time aboard .
It’s throwing up “codes “

1 - stb engine rpm dropped to 1500 initially then it said switch off .” Loss of drive “ so i am told ?
After a few mins it’s restated but the joystick would not work .
It rebooted after another on / off .

That was yesterday.
Today after about 30 mins at 22 knots ( 3000 rpm ) when it came off the plane the stb Dropped to 1500 again - we anchored .

I swam over and the with the ignition of the port engine showed 25 V and the stb showed less the 12 say about 10 v on the voltage gauges.

The only way to start the stb was to used the x over bat switch .

On the way back they worked fine , he WOT ed it to about 28 knots no faults
But on slowing down to enter the marina it throw up “ check network backbone “ .The joystick work normally for parking .

Q
It’s a portofino 47 Sunseeker
Are there separate bats for each engine ,thinking the stb are weak or loose connect?
I have asked him to check the connects but he says the bats were new in Feb when he bought it .

Q2 how do you check the gearbox oil ? In the pods ( not the engine oil )
We removed the black filler cap but there’s no dip stick !


Q3
How do you top up what appears to be a trim ram reservoir.
It’s identical to the leg raise / lower thingy on a outdrives boat .
Kinda transparent tank below with a black top half - no obvious sign of a filler port ?
There one in the middle ( outdrives have one near each leg irrc )


Q4
One of his Raymarine E120 screens went darker and darker and now is black - packed up - I seem to remember a thread on here a few month back ?
Link ps anybody.



Any help welcome.

 

[DougH]

[QUOTE



Q4
One of his Raymarine E120 screens went darker and darker and now is black - packed up - I seem to remember a thread on here a few month back ?




Any help welcome.[/QUOTE]

Had the same problem about 3 years ago.

Removed the plotter and took it to Raymarine in Southampton. For fixed price of (I think) £60.00 they gave a it a full test and replaced the power board.

Worked perfect so am very happy.

Raymarine agent in Mallorca wanted €1000.00 for the same service.

 

[kashurst]

Re E120 - replace the cold cathode light source with LEDs on a strip glued to reflector with 12v source -pretty good results, daylight viewable.
Proper fix - I believe the high voltage transformers and drive transistors for the cold cathode tubes are no longer available - might be worth checking ebay for repair co's.

IPS - the serious loss of voltage is worrying. The drives are electrically driven port - starboard, is there a position sensor issue?
sorry, apart from dodgy connections, you will need a Vodia box to solve this one, and it will probably take a few goes to get to the bottom of it.

 

[aquatom]

The strange thing is the title! If you have already diagnosed that the starboard battery voltage is low then why blame the IPS?
Yes Sunseekers have separate port and starboard start batterys.
IPS oil is checked with the dipstick at the back of the unit close to the exhaust.

 

[Momac]

Batteries may have been trashed by inactivity over several months and something left on draining them? Or could even be battery connections loose ?

 

[Sishoe]

You can just make out the dipstick cap on the link below, just above the curved exhaust.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AoMBqVrTEKbpnX15ENDp7n3S--Yv

 

[Portofino]

The strange thing is the title! If you have already diagnosed that the starboard battery voltage is low then why blame the IPS?
Yes Sunseekers have separate port and starboard start batterys.
IPS oil is checked with the dipstick at the back of the unit close to the exhaust.

Thx


Thx .
Are there dedicated separate port n stb engine bat banks and a sep house bank ?
Or does the stb supply come from the house .Only the port seperate/ dedicated ?

Reason I ask the ice maker turned off 5/6 hrs @ anchor and I think the cockpit cool box .
In my experience these have a V regulators that cut out below say 12.5 V so,s not to completely knacker the supply bat .

Of course once back on the home berth ( near neighbours) and shore powered up then they came back on .

Both chargers work btw ,I’ve looked at them .
There’s a 12 v and a 24 v and the panel inside has 12 v and 24 v stuff.

What Voltage are the D6 ,s —- 24 looking at the volt gauges ? if so there will be two batts for the ( good ) port engine and either another pair or rob the house for the poorly stb ?

I,am suspicious that the dealer did not actually fit new bats 6 months ago ?


This “ net work backbone “thing I recall some raymarine soft where clash between the auto pilot and IPS .

Thing is the boats a 2009 so if so how come it’s not been fixed until now ?
He thinks the drop to 1500 rpm is from the autopilot?

So condensing
Two issues overlapping

Potential duff stb batts

Software issue raymarine AP vs IPS ?

 

[aquatom]

A 47ft Sunseeker will normally have 4 battery banks. Port, starboard, domestics and 12v / Generator
The engines and domestics will be 24 volts

A 24 volt engine / IPS management system will quite likely throw up EVC faults if the battery voltage drops too low.

Even if the batterys are failing then the engines alternator should keep the voltage up.

Get the voltage problem sorted first then see if the other problems go away.

 

[Portofino]

Stb bat bank shot .
Replacements in hand .

 

[Momac]

Stb bat bank shot .
Replacements in hand .

Has a possible a cause of the battery failure been identified? Perhaps something is draining the batteries when the boat is idle? Or perhaps the on board battery charger is faulty ?

 

[Portofino]

double post

 

[Portofino]

Has a possible a cause of the battery failure been identified? Perhaps something is draining the batteries when the boat is idle? Or perhaps the on board battery charger is faulty ?

No
Turns out S/Skr did not replace all the bats in Feb .” Just some “ the new owner found out today .
Yup like you we were working on the principle that ALL bats were pretty new .

Both chargers seem fine .
You can see the A/ h output on them ( guages in the ER ) and interigate the saloon panel guages .
Owner did not go out today ,turned off the chargers after about 2 hrs when turning the ignition the good port E had 28 V or something the Stb had 20 V showing on the helm volt guages .
If the chargers are on for a while they both read 28 V ie on the dock .
When both engines running they show identical alternator out put irrc 28 V so we are assuming ( rightly or wrongly? ) the alternators are working chucking out charge , but the bats for the stb can,t hold the charge sufficiently for the various ECU ,s
Running the IPS and it’s throwimg the autopilot out eventually say 30 mins into a run out .

Surveyor picked up on some “dry cells “ -in Feb and S/ Sker supposed to have followed the recommendations which inc replace theses bats as a condition of sale .
3 month Warranty has expired and this is the 1 st proper chance the new owner ( neighbours) have had to use it .

Now we are told “only some “ not all bats were changed by S/Sker sales guy in La Napoule .

Plot thickens as the S/ Sker engineer who does bats ( he did my engines last Nov ) has let slip he has never been on to do any bat work !

Of caurse at this stage we don,t exactly know for certain,which bats were replaced -if any now - and which not .

Engineer is coming tomorrow to do a proper test .
All the engine and gearbox / pod / flaps - fluid levels are fine btw .

Thing is to start with we were working on the principal that ALL the bats were new Feb this year fitted here in Fr .
It’s was a stock boat taken in P/ e.x Btw

 

[Portofino]

Has a possible a cause of the battery failure been identified? Perhaps something is draining the batteries when the boat is idle? Or perhaps the on board battery charger is faulty ?

No
Turns out S/Skr did not replace all the bats in Feb .” Just some “ the new owner found out today .
Yup like you we were working on the principle that ALL bats were pretty new .

Both chargers seem fine .
You can see the A/ h output on them ( guages in the ER ) and interigate the saloon panel guages .
Owner did not go out today ,turned off the chargers after about 2 hrs when turning the ignition the good port E had 28 V or something the Stb had 20 V showing on the helm volt guages .
If the chargers are on for a while they both read 28 V ie on the dock .
When both engines running they show identical alternator out put irrc 28 V so we are assuming ( rightly or wrongly? ) the alternators are working chucking out charge , but the bats for the stb can,t hold the charge sufficiently for the various ECU ,s
Running the IPS and it’s throwimg the autopilot out eventually say 30 mins into a run out .

Surveyor picked up on some “dry cells “ -in Feb and S/ Sker supposed to have followed the recommendations which inc replace theses bats as a condition of sale .
3 month Warranty has expired and this is the 1 st proper chance the new owner ( neighbours) have had to use it .

Now we are told “only some “ not all bats were changed by S/Sker sales guy in La Napoule .

Plot thickens as the S/ Sker engineer who does bats ( he did my engines last Nov ) has let slip he has never been on to do any bat work !

Of caurse at this stage we don,t exactly which bats were replaced if any now - and which not .

Engineer is coming tomorrow to do a proper test .
All the engine and gearbox / pod / flaps - fluid levels are fine btw .

Thing is to start with we were working on the principal that ALL the bats were new Feb this year fitted here in Fr .

 

[NEB]

The strange thing is the title! If you have already diagnosed that the starboard battery voltage is low then why blame the IPS?
t.

Agreed, why not change the title as it is misleading, the "woes" are nothing to do with IPS.

 

[Boat2016]

Agreed, why not change the title as it is misleading, the "woes" are nothing to do with IPS.

Just what I was thinking, when you don’t know the real problem you blame IPS.

 

[MapisM]

Just what I was thinking, when you don’t know the real problem you blame IPS.

Sounds like a reasonable approach to me.
Statistically, by doing that, you are much more likely to be correct than with most other bits of kit...

 

[Boat2016]

Sounds like a reasonable approach to me.
Statistically, by doing that, you are much more likely to be correct than with most other bits of kit...

You know what they say, a little knowledge is very dangerous :encouragement:

 

[Portofino]

Just what I was thinking, when you don’t know the real problem you blame IPS.

Blaming nowt - just passing info

You don,t get error codes specifically related to straight shafts ( even with all singing / dancing electronic common rail )
With low batts referring to the drive mechanism.

That’s the point if it shot over your head

How can a straight shaft set up lcd display say “ loss of drive “
Or not engage the joystick ? joystick alarm etc ,

Sure a straight shaft can and does go through decaying / lifecycle of starter bats .

Lesson here for IPS guys if the voltage drops by what ever on the starter bats , and the bats loose x ( you insert the % capacity), even though it fires up normally the ECU chucks out drive / pod / joystick codes randomly it seems issues first before you hear the dead-mans click of the solenoid ——- got it !

Err that includes “ reduce to 1500 rpm “ in a busy fairway and
“ stop engine “ while attempting to anchor
“ unable to activate joystick “ or words to effect in the marina parking

So nope I,am not being judgemental, and refute the veiled accusation that I,am anti IPS - just passing on experience.

You decide - make your own judgements .

But we can,t turn the clock back and cruise around in TSDY ,s from the 30 ,s with Gardner 6 XLB ,s

Try and buy a new modal car with a carburettor, and no ECU s or a few as poss ?

 

[Nigelpickin]

Sounds like a reasonable approach to me.
Statistically, by doing that, you are much more likely to be correct than with most other bits of kit...

Just like an Italian to bring ‘statistics’ to a fact fight
FWIW, I’ve had more issues with my ‘simple’ yanmars (brand new) than I ever had with my Volvo/Cummins IPS/Zeus boats over 7 years....
Considering the proliferation of IPS boats it’s ‘statistically’ rare to read of problems on this site - oh, I mean first hand accounts from folk who actually have the system.
I’ll stand by for PF to come back with a view on how the battery fault would have been far easier to diagnose on a shaft boat and that since his first post the PODs have disintegrated, after all they’re > 5 year old, surely they don’t still work do they

Edit : he beat me to it!!!

 

[MapisM]

Just like an Italian to bring ‘statistics’ to a fact fight

Statistics AND a tongue in cheek emoticon, for sake of accuracy...