nfluester
Well-Known Member
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Inverters
- Thread starter Seastoke
- Start date
vas
Well-Known Member
I vaguely remember your video contributions to the thread, hence asking as I was expecting you'd advocate the kit building approach.
no offence, but imho these ready made kits are going to give lifepo4 a bad name down the road and are again imho for NO ONE!
Further, such drop ins are going to be useless on a 24V heavy loaded with kit 67ft (iirc) mobo that Mike has.
Pete7
Well-Known Member
Why?
vas
Well-Known Member
100AhX2 for 24V, to do what? I guess needs something beefier and something that you can suck more amps out of in use.
FE, running a watermaker off my batteries demands circa 85A@24V. iirc the bms on the built all in kits wont allow that rate of discharge
FE, running a watermaker off my batteries demands circa 85A@24V. iirc the bms on the built all in kits wont allow that rate of discharge
BruceK
Well-Known Member
can you join these "drop-ins" in parallel? Would the BMS etc work with cell balancing?
Pete7
Well-Known Member
I can attest to this. Our solar panel 300w can generate 20A in full sun. On Sunday, with a little bit of power used for domestics, the LFP was getting 18A even at 98% full. Lead acid was much slower to charge the last few percent.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
I have an “ inverter switch “ on the panel but never used it .
I went down the geny route , as we are an all electric boat and use the Aircon @ anchor in the med to cool the boat down before bed .
With that in mind I ( Boubas touched upon the subject ^^ ) I went down the sound insulation route .
I bought some adhesive lead sheets they use in cars and re lined on top of the OEM sound insulation inside the genys sound box .
Simultaneously I added an extra layer of sound proofing under the ER ceiling .This was primarily to quieten down the main engines but has the secondary effect of course of sound deadening every thing else in the ER like the geny and Aircon pumps etc .
I also rechecked , replaced the engine hatch rubber strips and adjusted the latches so when turned they really tighten up .
As a result despite being almost sat on the geny it’s pretty ok silent , just a faint hum .
Its exhaust is under the bathing platform at the stern so you only really hear it if you stand on the stern , that important as @ fire up i rush to the stern to make sure the cooling water is flowing .I would not want that exist and it’s little associated noise to be absolutely disguised .
I know they have thermal cut off etc …….but Sod’s law and boats are finely separated .
I carry a spare impeller like most , and it’s got a anti siphon loup in the supply side .
@ anchor we have what appears to be a full set of guages so the time run really depends on much charge the domestics need .
I can see there voltage , normally 28 -32 volts , if it starts to move to 26/27 I fire up the geny and charger .
I can also see exactly how much is being stuffed in by the smart charger .
Its a 100 Ah for 2x 180 Ah .Boggo lead acid .I upgraded on the advice of a boat sparky .The OEM was a 40 Ah .
So the worst I have seen ( Hurricane deep discharge point ) is up to 60 Ah which after 20 mins drops to 20 then hovers at 10 for a hour then that half’s before after say 1-2 hrs I switch it off .
Like most gone down the LED light mode .But we have decent size fridge ( could fit under a unit in a house ) in the galley and the usual smaller boat fridge in the cockpit.
I have some warning lights on the dash re the geny oil pressure and over heat - presume that’s the interruption of water supply .
So sometimes I run the geny with the charger off when running the boat .This is to as others as said to find 220v for chargers and for us to power the aircon so by the time we tie up in the Marina it’s ice cool below in the cabins .
In this case I hook up the shore power in the normal way and flick the 3 way breaker , while the Aircon is running from geny to shore .It does not notice .Then turn the geny off and switch on the usual AC stuff .
So it’s very simple and effective .
The geny engine is a Yanmar 400 cc with a stainless steel exhaust manifold .It looks well engineered a small MASE .
Actually air cooled it’s got fins like a motor bike .The water is for a heat exchanger to cool the air thats fanned about inside the box .Must be approaching 20 yrs , it get fresh oil all of 0.5 L annually.Can’t bust it !
I went down the geny route , as we are an all electric boat and use the Aircon @ anchor in the med to cool the boat down before bed .
With that in mind I ( Boubas touched upon the subject ^^ ) I went down the sound insulation route .
I bought some adhesive lead sheets they use in cars and re lined on top of the OEM sound insulation inside the genys sound box .
Simultaneously I added an extra layer of sound proofing under the ER ceiling .This was primarily to quieten down the main engines but has the secondary effect of course of sound deadening every thing else in the ER like the geny and Aircon pumps etc .
I also rechecked , replaced the engine hatch rubber strips and adjusted the latches so when turned they really tighten up .
As a result despite being almost sat on the geny it’s pretty ok silent , just a faint hum .
Its exhaust is under the bathing platform at the stern so you only really hear it if you stand on the stern , that important as @ fire up i rush to the stern to make sure the cooling water is flowing .I would not want that exist and it’s little associated noise to be absolutely disguised .
I know they have thermal cut off etc …….but Sod’s law and boats are finely separated .
I carry a spare impeller like most , and it’s got a anti siphon loup in the supply side .
@ anchor we have what appears to be a full set of guages so the time run really depends on much charge the domestics need .
I can see there voltage , normally 28 -32 volts , if it starts to move to 26/27 I fire up the geny and charger .
I can also see exactly how much is being stuffed in by the smart charger .
Its a 100 Ah for 2x 180 Ah .Boggo lead acid .I upgraded on the advice of a boat sparky .The OEM was a 40 Ah .
So the worst I have seen ( Hurricane deep discharge point ) is up to 60 Ah which after 20 mins drops to 20 then hovers at 10 for a hour then that half’s before after say 1-2 hrs I switch it off .
Like most gone down the LED light mode .But we have decent size fridge ( could fit under a unit in a house ) in the galley and the usual smaller boat fridge in the cockpit.
I have some warning lights on the dash re the geny oil pressure and over heat - presume that’s the interruption of water supply .
So sometimes I run the geny with the charger off when running the boat .This is to as others as said to find 220v for chargers and for us to power the aircon so by the time we tie up in the Marina it’s ice cool below in the cabins .
In this case I hook up the shore power in the normal way and flick the 3 way breaker , while the Aircon is running from geny to shore .It does not notice .Then turn the geny off and switch on the usual AC stuff .
So it’s very simple and effective .
The geny engine is a Yanmar 400 cc with a stainless steel exhaust manifold .It looks well engineered a small MASE .
Actually air cooled it’s got fins like a motor bike .The water is for a heat exchanger to cool the air thats fanned about inside the box .Must be approaching 20 yrs , it get fresh oil all of 0.5 L annually.Can’t bust it !
nfluester
Well-Known Member
There are some nuisances so can vary manufacturer to manufacturer but generally parallel is OK.
Series can be an issue as if one BMS disconnects through high voltage or low voltage cell you'll voltage will seriously drop
Pete7
Well-Known Member
Yes they will.
This is mine at 12v powering the kettle at night so no input from solar. If you need 24v just put a couple in series. The Sterlings can be linked in series to 48v if you want.
Pete
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vas
Well-Known Member
drop ins with Daly BMS?
didn't know that
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
I've just started reading the PBO thread. As Vas says, there is lots to consider.
Most of us leave our boats for months at a time.
If I am understanding it correctly, lead acid likes to be kept at 100%. The battery chargers are simply left on mostly running a float charge to keep them good.
Reading the PBO thread, it seems that, to keep lithiums in good condition, you need go store them at about 60%.
That makes sense. My DJI drone batteries discharge themselves automatically when left for a month or so. I guess DJI are doing this to prolong the battery life.
Just one example of how this simple concept "grows hairs".
Most of us leave our boats for months at a time.
If I am understanding it correctly, lead acid likes to be kept at 100%. The battery chargers are simply left on mostly running a float charge to keep them good.
Reading the PBO thread, it seems that, to keep lithiums in good condition, you need go store them at about 60%.
That makes sense. My DJI drone batteries discharge themselves automatically when left for a month or so. I guess DJI are doing this to prolong the battery life.
Just one example of how this simple concept "grows hairs".
Pete7
Well-Known Member
From Sterling with a 5 year warranty so no gambling with Ali-Express and risk receiving seconds or B grade cells.
Lithium Batteries
Lithium Batteries
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vas
Well-Known Member
thanks, but I'll pass and slowly built an 8S 280Ah bank during the next lockdown...
Richard.C
Well-Known Member
Just looking at the spec on those it states a max charge rate of 50A, I have very little knowledge of Lithium but that seems low when I keep reading that Lithium can take high charge rates. Am I misinterpreting this spec?
vas
Well-Known Member
I think that's one of the problems of drop-ins and their BMS limitations.
Mind 50A doesn't sound bad, not sure how many stock alternators will pump safely more than that...
More concerned on discharge abilities for running heavy loads (watermakers, heating elements, etc)
Mind 50A doesn't sound bad, not sure how many stock alternators will pump safely more than that...
More concerned on discharge abilities for running heavy loads (watermakers, heating elements, etc)
Richard.C
Well-Known Member
My Fairline has a 60A alternator on each engine so a theoretical max of 120A, it's never that high as there's always some load but it's definitely above 50A. I think these engines even had an option when new for 120A alternators.
I thought one of the advantages of Lithium was the ability to throw a load of charge at them to get them up as quickly as possible.
vas
Well-Known Member
mine also has two 60A alternators (ok at 24V)
first your service bank will only take charge from one of the two, so unless I'm mistaken, forget the 120A,
second, I think you will be running at decent planning speed to get that output. If you remove the engine and other paraphernalia consumption, I think the 50A is OKish. But yes, in theory you should be able to dump much more Amps to them
first your service bank will only take charge from one of the two, so unless I'm mistaken, forget the 120A,
second, I think you will be running at decent planning speed to get that output. If you remove the engine and other paraphernalia consumption, I think the 50A is OKish. But yes, in theory you should be able to dump much more Amps to them
Richard.C
Well-Known Member
For sure the devil is in the details before anyone considers these to be drop in replacements, you really need to know how your boat is wired.
Both alternators can provide charge to my house bank but also the house bank is used for engine starting of one engine so without re-wiring my batteries and the 12V high power distribution I couldn't just "drop in" replacement lithium as they won't handle the cranking amps.
vas
Well-Known Member
interesting, I've read about this Fairline approach to one engine starter running off the house bank, and iirc the shore charger NOT charging the other starter only battery...
Are you sure though that you can have current from both alternators going straight to house bank concurrently? or you can only switch one or the other?
Are you sure though that you can have current from both alternators going straight to house bank concurrently? or you can only switch one or the other?
Richard.C
Well-Known Member
In a recent test I did charge rate to the house bank increased with the second engine running, not the full alternator rate though. I need to do some more digging but I thought if the starter bank was full then alternator charge was redirected to the house bank. This would make sense to make the most use of the available charge.