Inverter on board

pvb said:
I reckon PaulRainbow's comment in post 13 ("This is now too dangerous for me to be involved in.") was appropriate. I can't see any point in continuing these pointless arguments. If people want to fit inverters incorrectly, it's their problem ultimately.
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Good point !

I cannot remember an inverter thread that didn't end up being invaded by a troll or an armchair expert.

If the inverter manufacturer has fitted a case earthing point and given instructions to Earth it, It truly mystifies my why anyone would not make the connection, or argue of it's purpose.

I've not posted much this week because i'm 130 miles from base, carrying out electrical upgrades and correcting some potentially lethal errors in the previous shore power installation on a fairly modern boat, circa £200k, seems like the idiots get to work on anything these days. The new owner is very happy with my work and hasn't started a single argument, perhaps i should stick to advising paying customers, rather than given it away for free on an internet forum where there's all too often someone who just wants to argue the toss.
 
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PaulRainbow said:
Was post #2 not clear enough ?

"Inverters must be Earthed, anyone who doesn't correctly do so is an idiot. "


As I understand it the US regs don't allow that - so that would make a lot of idiots


If the boat is GRP and no no external ground plane, where does one connect the Earth, if not the anode ?

Would the engine thus to a sail drive or prop not do?
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PaulRainbow said:
Good point !

I cannot remember an inverter thread that didn't end up being invaded by a troll or an armchair expert.

If the inverter manufacturer has fitted a case earthing point and given instructions to Earth it, It truly mystifies my why anyone would not make the connection, or argue of it's purpose.

I've not posted much this week because i'm 130 miles from base, carrying out electrical upgrades and correcting some potentially lethal errors in the previous shore power installation on a fairly modern boat, circa £200k, seems like the idiots get to work on anything these days. The new owner is very happy with my work and hasn't started a single argument, perhaps i should stick to advising paying customers, rather than given it away for free on an internet forum where there's all too often someone who just wants to argue the toss.
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Before you flounce off to paying-only customers (cough) - can I ask a quick supplementary please....

If I fitted a Victron inverter (as I did) - backed it up with an isolation transformer (which again I did) - and wired it all up as per the Victron article that you posted in post 35 (further down the article) then - even though it was a wooden hull (which some say did not really need the T/X) - have I at least done the correct (if not strictly necessary) thing by
1. Bridging the shore power across the T/X with an earth (only)? and
2. Then bonding everything else inboard including neutral and earth to salt-water ground?
 
Trident said:
From the ABYC guidelines:

Then, connect the grounding conductor (green) of the AC panel directly to the engine negative terminal or its bus.
Note that this meets the ABYC recommendation.
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So how does this relate to your statement that US regs don't allow inverters to be earthed?
 
pvb said:
So how does this relate to your statement that US regs don't allow inverters to be earthed?
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Sorry it was a mistype - I should have said they don't make it a requirement - not they don't allow it

Whereas the RCD (as in Recreational Craft Directive) insists on it the US with its millions of boaters do not.

My previous post assumed you were also disagreeing with the ground to engine bit too
 
Trident said:
Sorry it was a mistype - I should have said they don't make it a requirement - not they don't allow it

Whereas the RCD (as in Recreational Craft Directive) insists on it the US with its millions of boaters do not.
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You're not filling me with confidence in your opinions. Doesn't the ABYC inverter installation guidance (section A-31) say that the inverter case should be grounded?
 
Rebecca & Steve said:
Before you flounce off to paying-only customers (cough) - can I ask a quick supplementary please....
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No problem, i'll PM you a bill :)

If I fitted a Victron inverter (as I did) - backed it up with an isolation transformer (which again I did) - and wired it all up as per the Victron article that you posted in post 35 (further down the article) then - even though it was a wooden hull (which some say did not really need the T/X) - have I at least done the correct (if not strictly necessary) thing by
1. Bridging the shore power across the T/X with an earth (only)? and
2. Then bonding everything else inboard including neutral and earth to salt-water ground?
Click to expand...

You wired it up as fig 15 ?

In which case you bonded neutral and Earth at the transformer output and all Earths to the ground (your point 2 above)

If point 1 above means that you bridged the transformer input and output Earth connections, that's incorrect. By doing so you defeat the purpose of the IT, as you have electrical continuity from the boats underwater metalwork to the shore power Earth. Leave shore power Earth connected to the IT input, but remove the bridge.
 
pvb said:
You're not filling me with confidence in your opinions. Doesn't the ABYC inverter installation guidance (section A-31) say that the inverter case should be grounded?
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I may be wrong, but I was actually replying to this comment which is not discussing the case earth but the inverter earth as I read it :

If it doesn't have an Earth connection, don't buy it. Inverters must be Earthed, anyone who doesn't correctly do so is an idiot.

Again, I may be wrong (and I come here to learn ) but those that are double insulated would not need a case earth and would still be quite safe wouldn't they?
 
Trident said:
I may be wrong, but I was actually replying to this comment which is not discussing the case earth but the inverter earth as I read it :

If it doesn't have an Earth connection, don't buy it. Inverters must be Earthed, anyone who doesn't correctly do so is an idiot.

Again, I may be wrong (and I come here to learn ) but those that are double insulated would not need a case earth and would still be quite safe wouldn't they?
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Gosh, which double-insulated inverter make/model were you thinking of?
 
Trident said:
I may be wrong, but I was actually replying to this comment which is not discussing the case earth but the inverter earth as I read it :

If it doesn't have an Earth connection, don't buy it. Inverters must be Earthed, anyone who doesn't correctly do so is an idiot.

Again, I may be wrong (and I come here to learn ) but those that are double insulated would not need a case earth and would still be quite safe wouldn't they?
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You are mistaken, i was referring to case Earth, as was the OP.
 
PaulRainbow said:
No problem, i'll PM you a bill :)



You wired it up as fig 15 ?

In which case you bonded neutral and Earth at the transformer output and all Earths to the ground (your point 2 above)

If point 1 above means that you bridged the transformer input and output Earth connections, that's incorrect. By doing so you defeat the purpose of the IT, as you have electrical continuity from the boats underwater metalwork to the shore power Earth. Leave shore power Earth connected to the IT input, but remove the bridge.
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No, not like 15, more like Fig 13 where there is a RED 'X' - i.e. A 100% air-gap across the IT.

I genuinely asked 4 marine sparks whether to use an IT and bond on a wooden boat - 2 said yes, 2 said no! They did the wiring and I did the bonding!
 
Trident said:
My apologies then I clearly misunderstood given that the OP's post did not mention the word case at any time.

So as I asked above - would a double insulated inverter also be idiotic to fit without a case ground ?
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And which double-insulated inverter make/model were you thinking of?
 
Rebecca & Steve said:
No, not like 15, more like Fig 13 where there is a RED 'X' - i.e. A 100% air-gap across the IT.

I genuinely asked 4 marine sparks whether to use an IT and bond on a wooden boat - 2 said yes, 2 said no! They did the wiring and I did the bonding!
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I don't see any relevance of the wooden hull, it still has metalwork in the water.

Bonding, as in bonding shore power Earth to the underwater metalwork; it wasn't a requirement when your boat was built, so it was optional now. This would be why you got different answers from the sparks.

If you chose to bond, you should then fit a GI or an IT. If you followed the Victron schematics and connected all of the Earths to ground and left the input and output Earth connections on the IT separate, you're good to go.
 
PaulRainbow said:
I don't see any relevance of the wooden hull, it still has metalwork in the water.

Bonding, as in bonding shore power Earth to the underwater metalwork; it wasn't a requirement when your boat was built, so it was optional now. This would be why you got different answers from the sparks.

If you chose to bond, you should then fit a GI or an IT. If you followed the Victron schematics and connected all of the Earths to ground and left the input and output Earth connections on the IT separate, you're good to go.
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(y)(y)(y)
 
Trident said:
My apologies then I clearly misunderstood given that the OP's post did not mention the word case at any time.

So as I asked above - would a double insulated inverter also be idiotic to fit without a case ground ?
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As i said earlier, if the manufacturer has fitted an Earth connection, it needs to be Earthed.
 
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