dunedin
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Out of interest which cables did you up-spec?
Intermittent engine start issue - recent Volvo D2-50
- Thread starter dunedin
- Start date
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Mmmmm. A further update.
Back on the boat and £160 lighter for a new AGM crank battery as suggested by the previous engineer. Carefully fitted and fully mains charged.
Two days later we now have three problems
- engine again failed to start this morning, though batteries good. Same story - EVC screen goes blank and nothing happens. Started fine second attempt (but later in day testing failed about one in ten times)
- 10 minutes after starting and negotiating some tricky rock pilotage, noticed that we were not charging - showing minus 3 amps with all plotters / instruments on under engine, a bare plus 3 amps with everything including panel powered down, with engine at 2000 rpm. Battery voltages whilst charging only about 12.8v. Would typically have at least plus 8-10 amps with all systems on under engine at that stage, and voltage 13+ v. Later when retried at pontoon sometimes came on at 25-30 amps after starting. A few other times, after engine start issues, was again showing barely charging.
- later with engineer on board and testing things through on three occasions failed to be able to stop engine - rpm indicator started flickering between 0 and 500 rpm (whilst engine revs constant) and failed to respond to stop button on EVC. Needed to use hard stop button on block.
Boat electrician spent 2 hours checking everything he could. Unlike usual intermittents, sometimes the faults happened whilst he was watching (but still very variable). Problem seemed to get worse when he removed connector blocks to check connections into Volvo control box (connections all looked good) then reconnected. That was when stop fault first surfaced.
Engineer very diligent, but we are both stumped. He checked power and power loss at every stage we could.
Where next ? He wonders if the Volvo black box control unit (only 5 years and 270 hours old) could have an internal bad connection. But that sounds an expensive "try it and see" - and none within hundreds of miles of us.
Any views? Does it sound like the control box? This is getting frustrating as another voyage aborted to head into harbour and more money headed down the drain.
PS. Modern boats are not necessarily less trouble than older ones, I am rapidly discovering
Back on the boat and £160 lighter for a new AGM crank battery as suggested by the previous engineer. Carefully fitted and fully mains charged.
Two days later we now have three problems
- engine again failed to start this morning, though batteries good. Same story - EVC screen goes blank and nothing happens. Started fine second attempt (but later in day testing failed about one in ten times)
- 10 minutes after starting and negotiating some tricky rock pilotage, noticed that we were not charging - showing minus 3 amps with all plotters / instruments on under engine, a bare plus 3 amps with everything including panel powered down, with engine at 2000 rpm. Battery voltages whilst charging only about 12.8v. Would typically have at least plus 8-10 amps with all systems on under engine at that stage, and voltage 13+ v. Later when retried at pontoon sometimes came on at 25-30 amps after starting. A few other times, after engine start issues, was again showing barely charging.
- later with engineer on board and testing things through on three occasions failed to be able to stop engine - rpm indicator started flickering between 0 and 500 rpm (whilst engine revs constant) and failed to respond to stop button on EVC. Needed to use hard stop button on block.
Boat electrician spent 2 hours checking everything he could. Unlike usual intermittents, sometimes the faults happened whilst he was watching (but still very variable). Problem seemed to get worse when he removed connector blocks to check connections into Volvo control box (connections all looked good) then reconnected. That was when stop fault first surfaced.
Engineer very diligent, but we are both stumped. He checked power and power loss at every stage we could.
Where next ? He wonders if the Volvo black box control unit (only 5 years and 270 hours old) could have an internal bad connection. But that sounds an expensive "try it and see" - and none within hundreds of miles of us.
Any views? Does it sound like the control box? This is getting frustrating as another voyage aborted to head into harbour and more money headed down the drain.
PS. Modern boats are not necessarily less trouble than older ones, I am rapidly discovering
pvb
Well-Known Member
It might be the EVC box, although I'm not certain whether that controls the alternator. It may do, to reduce load on a cold engine. Can you do a deal with a VP dealer to buy a new box on the understanding that if it doesn't solve the problem you can send it back to them and they'll refund you (less a reasonable restocking deduction)?
Bobc
Well-Known Member
Pound to a pinch it's this.
On the back of the starter solenoid, there is a wire that comes from the starter relay (I think it's yellow and red). Take the connector off at the solenoid, and I bet it'll be choroded and full of crud.
Cut the connector off and put a new one on, and give the spade connect ro on the solenoid a good clean. Job sorted.
If it is that, you owe me a forum pint.
On the back of the starter solenoid, there is a wire that comes from the starter relay (I think it's yellow and red). Take the connector off at the solenoid, and I bet it'll be choroded and full of crud.
Cut the connector off and put a new one on, and give the spade connect ro on the solenoid a good clean. Job sorted.
If it is that, you owe me a forum pint.
pvb
Well-Known Member
How exactly do you think that wire might affect the charging, the rev counter and the EVC display?
Bobc
Well-Known Member
I didn't read the whole thread, and was simply respondong the original problem of not starting sometimes. It sounds like there's a whole load more problems now (which I wouldn't mind betting are due to people fiddling with things they don't really understand.
I have to say that I was sceptical about these EVC Volvo engines when they came out (just don't like the idea of "computer says no" at sea), so spec'd the old engine for our boat, which may not be modern and perfect, but I can mend everything myself.
I have to say that I was sceptical about these EVC Volvo engines when they came out (just don't like the idea of "computer says no" at sea), so spec'd the old engine for our boat, which may not be modern and perfect, but I can mend everything myself.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Yes the alternator and start solenoid controls all go into this small black box on the port side of the engine.
Hence describing the three issues to a Volvo engineer (remotely by phone) he did suggest this could be the most likely area - and what he would try next (but no guarantees). Cost circa £450 plus delivery to the wild west - and not found one in stock yet.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Thanks also. I don't think it is this, but will check. Recent boat and engine bay is pristine so not much corrosion likely. And as pvb says, this would not explain the charge and stop issues.
As you say, the investigations could have exacerbated the problem - but other than replacing the crank battery (two bolts on battery posts), all other tests/ fiddles have been done by an experienced marine electrician who seemed to understand these things and know what he was doing.
Agree with your point that the less electronics in an engine system the better - but most of us don't have the choice of engine spec when buying a boat
TiggerToo
Well-Known Member
This might not be "Your" cause, but we had similar symptoms a few years ago. In the end, we narrowed it down (after several years of failing to find the prob) to this:
The little "relay" box (number 11 in this diagram https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7740690-30-9349.aspx) was working loose with the vibrations of the engine.
The solution has been to stick a piece of thin neoprene foam onto the inner side of the cap (number 32 on the same diagram).
We have had no recurrence of the problem since (~3 years ago?).
The little "relay" box (number 11 in this diagram https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7740690-30-9349.aspx) was working loose with the vibrations of the engine.
The solution has been to stick a piece of thin neoprene foam onto the inner side of the cap (number 32 on the same diagram).
We have had no recurrence of the problem since (~3 years ago?).
Rafiki
Well-Known Member
I now have a D2-40 Volvo on the boat I bought a month or so ago, in all relevant respects this appears to be the same engine as you, same EVC system etc. The engine behaved perfectly until yesterday ! When I tried to start it yesterday I had exactly the same symptoms as you; press button on panel, 'Volvo Penta ' comes up , the self test process works, three small 'beeps' then when you press the start button .... absolutely nothing and the EVC has turned itself off. However If I then tried to start it on the 'House' batteries ( not a good long term solution) it started as normal.
The house batteries were showing about 12.75v and the engine start battery about 12.8v ( I didn't check volts when actually trying to start the engine). The batteries had not been charged for two weeks.
From everything that has been said I think my starting point should be to replace the engine battery, but I'm curious why this is the problem, given that it was showing more volts than the house batteries.
Thinking about it further - every previous time we have started the engine it had been on shore power for at least 6 hours previously, or we had been motoring followed by three or four hours of sailing and then an engine re-start.
Any thoughts?
Regards
From everything that has been said I
The house batteries were showing about 12.75v and the engine start battery about 12.8v ( I didn't check volts when actually trying to start the engine). The batteries had not been charged for two weeks.
From everything that has been said I think my starting point should be to replace the engine battery, but I'm curious why this is the problem, given that it was showing more volts than the house batteries.
Thinking about it further - every previous time we have started the engine it had been on shore power for at least 6 hours previously, or we had been motoring followed by three or four hours of sailing and then an engine re-start.
Any thoughts?
Regards
From everything that has been said I
Bobc
Well-Known Member
As I said in my previous post, check your solenoid connection from the relay. It could be that there's not quite enough amps getting through because of a cruddy connection. I've had this will a lorry, where I got nothing until I put jump leads across to a car, and then it went fine. The extra grunt just got enough amps through to the solenoid to throw it.
richardbrennan
Well-Known Member
It's a few years ago now so I cannot remember exactly but we certainly changed the negative cable to the engine block and the positive cable to the engine master switch, we may have changed the cable to the starter motor as well but I cannot recall with any certainty.
We also found the same solution as Onia, if you connected the domestic and engine banks together, the engine would start, I presume this reduced the voltage drop I was getting.
We also found the same solution as Onia, if you connected the domestic and engine banks together, the engine would start, I presume this reduced the voltage drop I was getting.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Well surprise surprise, one expensive new MDI box that engineers said was the solution and still in the same place.
The same day that we fitted it we left harbour (having again been stuck in port due to the problems) and the charge was suddenly erratic again.
And on day 5 the engine again failed to start on 2 out of 5 occasions, with same symptoms of screen going blank and nothing happening.
Has, touch wood, started on most occasions - but a big risk that may not in a critical corner or anchorage.
But only on one occasion in 20 starts have we seen a charge voltage above 13.5 volts, and typically 12.8 to 13.4 volts. So feels like the charge is certainly weak
All this on a low hours recent Volvo Penta D2.
And the Volvo agent who did the service simply now stating "take to nearest Volvo agent" - which is circa 250 sea miles (and two capes) in one direction, and similar distance the other direction. No support listed between Clyde and Inverness.
Wishing for my trouble free 15 year old Yanmar from my previous boat ....
The same day that we fitted it we left harbour (having again been stuck in port due to the problems) and the charge was suddenly erratic again.
And on day 5 the engine again failed to start on 2 out of 5 occasions, with same symptoms of screen going blank and nothing happening.
Has, touch wood, started on most occasions - but a big risk that may not in a critical corner or anchorage.
But only on one occasion in 20 starts have we seen a charge voltage above 13.5 volts, and typically 12.8 to 13.4 volts. So feels like the charge is certainly weak
All this on a low hours recent Volvo Penta D2.
And the Volvo agent who did the service simply now stating "take to nearest Volvo agent" - which is circa 250 sea miles (and two capes) in one direction, and similar distance the other direction. No support listed between Clyde and Inverness.
Wishing for my trouble free 15 year old Yanmar from my previous boat ....
bobgarrett
Well-Known Member
I was directed to this thread as we have had the same problem develop.
As soon as I use a jump lead from from the domestic batteries then the engine will start. I have ordered a new starter battery but now worry this may not be the problem.
It does seem daft that the EVC shuts down rather than give a clue in a message or just a slow turnover.
We have also had the stop problem recently but still why the EVC shutdown?
As soon as I use a jump lead from from the domestic batteries then the engine will start. I have ordered a new starter battery but now worry this may not be the problem.
It does seem daft that the EVC shuts down rather than give a clue in a message or just a slow turnover.
We have also had the stop problem recently but still why the EVC shutdown?
bobgarrett
Well-Known Member
Having replaced my battery my problem has gone. So I assume it was the battery despite it appearing to have a good voltage.
It remains poor design that the Volvo EVC just turns off rather than indicating "low voltage".
It remains poor design that the Volvo EVC just turns off rather than indicating "low voltage".
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Vp dealers between Clyde and Inverness,
Not sure where the OP is just now, but Volvo Penta list dealers in both Kirkwall and Lerwick, also Crinan Boats( who dealt with the recall on my D1-30 panel) and of course Caley Marina.
Not sure where the OP is just now, but Volvo Penta list dealers in both Kirkwall and Lerwick, also Crinan Boats( who dealt with the recall on my D1-30 panel) and of course Caley Marina.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
So after 3 engineers and various unnecessary replacements, it looks like it was an intermittently failing negative battery isolation switch impacting the engine earth and reducing voltage. This had been suggested but tested and specifically ruled out by engineer 2 - the risk with intermittent problems.
Bertie McMinn at Mallaig managed to identify and - fingers crossed - solve the issue.
So was voltage related. And like bobgarret very annoying the EVC simply closes down - particularly as even when having the issue had enough volts to spin and start the engine if bypassed
PS Caley Marina helped source the engineer who fixed it, thanks - and since then have passed through both Kirkwall and Inverness with the revitalised engine and charging
Last edited:
pvb
Well-Known Member
Phew! Well done.
Quid
New Member
I hope this thread is still live as I have a very similar problem with my Volvo Penta D2-50 newly installed in 2018. The engine always starts/cranks in the marina (no shore power) or after a quiet overnight anchorage, but does not crank after a period of sailing greater than say 12 hours. I always have to parallel the house batteries to start the engine. When doing so, the engine does crank but it takes a while for the engine to fire, say 3 seconds of cranking. Note, I now also check the engine battery before attempting an after sail start and it is generally +/- 13V.
To date we have replaced: the battery with a larger 90AH; 4 MDIs; a new relay/solenoid; a new starter panel; a new battery switch; a new starter motor; and a complete new harness. However the problem continues. VP say the problem has to be electrical but I'm wondering if the poor starting when the house batteries are used is signalling some other associated problem.
Has anyone else had these symptoms?
To date we have replaced: the battery with a larger 90AH; 4 MDIs; a new relay/solenoid; a new starter panel; a new battery switch; a new starter motor; and a complete new harness. However the problem continues. VP say the problem has to be electrical but I'm wondering if the poor starting when the house batteries are used is signalling some other associated problem.
Has anyone else had these symptoms?
Bobc
Well-Known Member
What size and length are your starter cables from the battery?
Only asking this because all these problems seem to suggest a lack of amps getting to the starter, and the EVC deciding that there isn't enough and forbidding the engine to turn over. It could be that putting jump leads across boosts the amps enough to make it work. Just thinking that you might have too much current drop in the cables.
Only asking this because all these problems seem to suggest a lack of amps getting to the starter, and the EVC deciding that there isn't enough and forbidding the engine to turn over. It could be that putting jump leads across boosts the amps enough to make it work. Just thinking that you might have too much current drop in the cables.
Last edited:
