Interior varnish questions

[eddystone]

I’m looking to put some coats of varnish on an internal bulkhead or two and also teak/holly soleboards which have been hiding under carpet. I intend to rub down, in the case of the sole boards far enough to remove ingrained dirt but not back to bare wood. The stuff Sadler used is no longer available so I was wondering whether I should be using oil or water based varnishes to get a satin finish. Also in terms of application can I use white spirit to thin first coat (s) or something else. My varnishing efforts aren’t generally very impressive so I was looking at spraying but they seem disproportionately expensive for the size of the job. Another also (!) is it correct one should use gloss varnish and then satin for the final coat?

 

[SteveA]

I’m looking to put some coats of varnish on an internal bulkhead or two and also teak/holly soleboards which have been hiding under carpet. I intend to rub down, in the case of the sole boards far enough to remove ingrained dirt but not back to bare wood. The stuff Sadler used is no longer available so I was wondering whether I should be using oil or water based varnishes to get a satin finish. Also in terms of application can I use white spirit to thin first coat (s) or something else. My varnishing efforts aren’t generally very impressive so I was looking at spraying but they seem disproportionately expensive for the size of the job. Another also (!) is it correct one should use gloss varnish and then satin for the final coat?

I've use Epiphane satin 2 pack with good results within the cabin and didn't bother thinning and just used one coat - 2 years in and it still looks as good as new. If doing multiple coats I think using a gloss stops the finish becoming like mud.

 

[geem]

Talking to some of the super yacht Captains in Antigua who have professional varnish work done regularly, they said that they build up several layers of gloss varnish and its the last coat that determines the final finish. They quite regularly apply 8 or more coats. They have this work done every six months in the Tropics but this is on external woodwork. There varnish work is stunning!
We have been doing lots of varnish work lately. Using a hot air gun and scraper is the best way to remove failed varnish. You can dilute the first coat of oil based varnish with white spirits so it penetrates the wood. This will lift the grain so you will need to wet and dry between coats to flatten the grain. We did about 6 coats and achieved a pretty acceptable finish.
Good luck

 

[Minchsailor]

"I've use Epiphane satin 2 pack"

Don't use 2 pack over an unknown varnish. It will cause trouble. Only over virgin wood, Epifanes I find a bit too fragile.

Blackfriars Satin (from Builders merchants - Brewers?) is more substantial. Mix with their gloss to get the right degree of satin/gloss. OK to thin with white spirit.

 

[Sandy]

I use Le Tonkinois for everything, indoor and outdoor.

 

[Concerto]

Not sure what Sadlers used on their internal woodwork, but many British boat builders including Westerly did not use varnish but a lacquer. Morrells is an industrial supplier of wood finishes mainly for the furniture industry with branches all over the UK. Westerly used their 450 low odour high build up acid catalyst lacquer with 30% sheen.
https://www.morrells.co.uk/products...0-low-odour-high-build-acid-catalyst-lacquer/
Currently I am relacquering my Fulmar's interior. The lacquer was created to be sprayed, but also brushes well. To buy 5 litres of lacquer and 5 litres of thinners cost just under £60. An equivalent quatity of any varnish will cost considerably more.

For external varnish on teak I use Le Tonkinoise with 8 coats initially applied.

 

[eddystone]

Pretty sure Sadler used Sadolin

 

[dankilb]

Having seen @Concerto's results on here - and also always liked the way Westerly's interiors looked/aged (when cared for!) - I plan to use Morrell's lacquer to re-finish the teak veneer in our Jeanneau.

Seeing as I plan to refinish every surface, which have previously been ruined by having some nasty yellowing varnish slopped on badly, I shouldn't matter what the factory used for us.

 

[boyblue]

Slightly off topic, can you apply oil over varnish ?

 

[dleroc]

Hempel favourite varnish does the job. Lovely finish.

 

[dankilb]

Slightly off topic, can you apply oil over varnish ?

Don't think so (unless the varnish is so worn as to no longer be creating a surface over the wood). By sealing the wood, the varnish would prevent the oil from penetrating. Something with high-solids - like Osmo - might still dry and look okay (if aesthetics were the only aim/concern). In that case, test an area and see.

 

[salar]

The boatbuilder for my boat recommended Epiphanes which I have used on other interior work and it has held up very well. Lovely satin finish.

 

[jwilson]

If you are varnishing use several gloss coats and then one or two satin, not all satin coats as it gives an inferior result, hiding a lot of the hopefully attractive wood grain. As others have said many boats were lacquered, and I have a can of Morells 80% shine lacquer. Overall though I believe conventional oil based (alkyd) varnish is better protection, and tend to use multiple coats of whatever gloss varnish I have (usually Ronseal) followed by one or two thin coats of Epifanes Rubbed Effect varnish.

I am not a fan of waterbased varnishes on boats, not a good enough finish and can go milky if get very wet.

 

[alahol2]

Can anyone explain to me what laquer is? Is it a two part finish? Which of the several versions on the Morrell's web site is appropriate.
My own boat (1978) appears to have a laquer finish which is mainly in excellent condition but there are a few places (table, galley edgings etc) that could do with re-finishing.

 

[jwilson]

Lacquer: AFAIK and I have used it quite a few times it is usually a single part cellulose based finish, the thinner is mainly acetone. Boatbuilders ofen use it instead of varnish as it can be sprayed, dries very fast, and you can do several coats in a day, which you certainly can't do with alkyd/oilbased varnish. It gives a nice but I don't feel that hardwearing a finish. Some boats seem to keep the interior looking good much longer than others: I suspect Hallberg-Rassy use varnish on interior joinery rather than lacquer, as even old HR interiors usually seem to still look good.

 

[dansaskip]

Epifanes gloss 2 or more coats finished with 1 of epifanes rubbed effect finish gives a lovely satin finish. Key to getting a good finish is preparation - always use a tack cloth to clean the surface before applying the varnish and a good soft brush (camel hair) probably bought in an artists shop than a decorating shop. The correct temperature and humidity help too.

 

[Concerto]

The Morrells 450 lacquer that I mentioned earlier is a 2 part lacquer at a ratio of 1:9 mix. It has a pot life of up to 36 hours, but once applied it is dry in about 3 hours. This means it is possible to do 2 or 3 coats in a day. That is why manufacturers like using a lacquer over varnish.

 

[alahol2]

Lacquer: AFAIK and I have used it quite a few times it is usually a single part cellulose based finish, the thinner is mainly acetone. Boatbuilders ofen use it instead of varnish as it can be sprayed, dries very fast, and you can do several coats in a day, which you certainly can't do with alkyd/oilbased varnish. It gives a nice but I don't feel that hardwearing a finish. Some boats seem to keep the interior looking good much longer than others: I suspect Hallberg-Rassy use varnish on interior joinery rather than lacquer, as even old HR interiors usually seem to still look good.

The Morrells 450 lacquer that I mentioned earlier is a 2 part lacquer at a ratio of 1:9 mix. It has a pot life of up to 36 hours, but once applied it is dry in about 3 hours. This means it is possible to do 2 or 3 coats in a day. That is why manufacturers like using a lacquer over varnish.

Thanks. The vast majority of the woodwork in my boat is in very good condition even at 40+ years old. Where I've tried to touch up the odd scratch I've found it very difficult to get 'normal' varnish to attach to the existing lacquer despite degreasing/sanding etc. I'm thinking that lacquer may be more successful although having to buy 5 litres is a bit of a turnoff. Anyone know if it's available in smaller pots from anywhere?

 

[Concerto]

Thanks. The vast majority of the woodwork in my boat is in very good condition even at 40+ years old. Where I've tried to touch up the odd scratch I've found it very difficult to get 'normal' varnish to attach to the existing lacquer despite degreasing/sanding etc. I'm thinking that lacquer may be more successful although having to buy 5 litres is a bit of a turnoff. Anyone know if it's available in smaller pots from anywhere?

The people at Morrells trade counters are very helpful. When I discussed what to use on the cabin sole boards, they said they could provide just 1 litre. May be worth asking. Alternatively see if there is an owner with a smaller Westerly near you who may want to relacquer their interior and split the cost.

 

[bobgarrett]

What would you recommend for companionway steps? Need hard wearing and not affected by water.