Interested in a boat... But

[azk101]

Interested in a Moody 419 but there are a couple things I noticed which I wanted to get a bit more info on to see if its an issue or whats would need to be done to make good.

1. Opening and rust on the bolted on keel where it meets the hull. If its normal when it comes to sanding and anti foaling what would be a good way to make all this good? It goes all the way around the keel.





2. On the starboard side it looks like there is a leak from where one of the chainplates are screwed in. Could this be more serious than it looks?

Red arrow is the chainplate cover inside which seems to have that leak. Green is the areas I zoomed in on. and then the chainplate in question.






Cheers

 

[doug748]

The chainplate leak is a headache for several reasons.
First, it is obvious neglect, you can see it has gone on for some while and someone has tried the dreaded silicone sealant to fix it.
Second, you can bet it is not the only leak and you would really need to take down the mast and redo all the chainplates for peace of mind.
Third, the boat has been in the hands of an ownership who have put up with this, so there may/will be other similar questionable things to emerge.
Fourth, there is a composite deck supporting that fitting and you would want to know that the internal sealing has not been compromised.
The overall condition of the teak deck also needs serious consideration.

Most things can be fixed but you would not want to pay top dollar or anything like it. Unless you are happy to buy cheap and do the work it may be better to withdraw gracefully before the survey.

.

 

[mjcp]

I have a Sigma (same builder your prospective boat) from 1980 (4 -6 years older). The keel to hull joint is pretty standard it seems. The keel is iron, it will rust if exposed. killing the rust is easier on the non complex shaped areas - the flat bits / leading / trailing edges etc, but getting into the gap between the keel flange and the hull is a pita in-situ. The gap is typically filled with something with a bit of flex, but over time that may harden and the seal is lost, so the "not quite treated last time round" bits of iron can rust. (see below + photo)

As others have said, *could* be indicative of laissez-faire attitude to other stuff.

The chain plate - ~fairly common in the Sigma fleet (but then they are knocking on 40+ years old now). One of them is straightforward to deal with, the other is behind wood and requires cutting to access. Unsure about the Moody. Thought the decks are solid, not cored except: some areas do have ply embedded for hardware to mount, so check for springy-ness where deck organisers and other hardware has been fitted / moved / refitted etc but not properly sealed.


Photo - top - 2024/25 layup keel rust (and grime, post jet-wash) vs lower - 2025/26 (NO grime, post jet-wash - SML Cu-Pro working very well), the red is Hammarite Special metal primer applied liberally to stop surface rust. The spots from 24/25 pretty much came back this winter, so I wire-brushed and treated with a rust converter, then applied liberal primer to seal till the spring. (last winter I missed the rust converter step, but did epoxy prime before antifoul) My keel is pretty fair and not caked in years of antifoul, yours looks to have a thick layer of filler / paint, so you may need additional steps to remove / treat / fill & fair too!

M

 

[Tranona]

Agree with the above. Chain Plate is a big unknown - you won't know how bad it is until you take the wood trim of and look underneath. you might also find the other side needs attention as well. The keel is normal. not difficult to sort, either hard physical graft to take it back to bare metal or more sensibly have it blasted and immediately coated with epoxy. If the boat is a keeper then consider doing the hull as well and Coppercoating. Obviously more money but worth it in the long rune. With a big old boat like this you are into a lifetime of expenditure so you have to decide where your priorities lie. The chain plate though is essential to get sorted.

This where a good surveyor pays off. Spend the day with him and aim for a schedule of work to get it to the standard you want.

 

[azk101]

So the standing rigging was fully replaced in 2023, although I would still inspect all of them if this boat was mine. From what info I can gather the deck or at least the reinforced parts of it has balsa core, but wouldn't the holes for the chainplates been oversized then glassed, so therefore any leakage wouldn't be able to seep into the core? I suppose though if this has been going on water could be getting under the teak decking in this spot?

I should enquire how long the owner has known about this, although I know its an older gentleman and the boat was put on the hard for winter.

Good news on the keel. I think if I were to get this boat I would have to strip everything back.

 

[lektran]

I suppose though if this has been going on water could be getting under the teak decking in this spot?

Water could be getting under the teak in any number of places on an old deck. If/when you fix this, the teak should be trimmed back from the edges of the hole in the GRP to allow for a better seal. Don't assume the underside of the teak isn't a path for water ingress.

 

[mrming]

So the standing rigging was fully replaced in 2023, although I would still inspect all of them if this boat was mine. From what info I can gather the deck or at least the reinforced parts of it has balsa core, but wouldn't the holes for the chainplates been oversized then glassed, so therefore any leakage wouldn't be able to seep into the core? I suppose though if this has been going on water could be getting under the teak decking in this spot?

I should enquire how long the owner has known about this, although I know its an older gentleman and the boat was put on the hard for winter.

Good news on the keel. I think if I were to get this boat I would have to strip everything back.

Have a surveyor look carefully at the teak deck, and make sure you fully understand the cost of any work needed. Rusty keels and a leak can be dealt with, but replacing a teak deck could cost a substantial proportion of the boat’s value.

 

[Refueler]

Have a surveyor look carefully at the teak deck, and make sure you fully understand the cost of any work needed. Rusty keels and a leak can be dealt with, but replacing a teak deck could cost a substantial proportion of the boat’s value.

Be honest - most surveyors wouldn't know their ar** from their elbow as to what's under a teak deck ... unless they find a lifting or damaged area.

Back to photo's of OP ...

Keel joint .... typical where it has not been maintained each lift out. Needs keel and joint brought back to basics and recoated / sealed. It would be good idea to check out the keel bolts ... which may lead to dropping keel to inspect main part of bolts.
Wet patches / leak ... not unusual on an older .. or even relatively new boat ... need open up and see extent.
Those runs are indicative of DIY squirt in some sealant and hope it does the job ... always fails because the fittings 'work' and the sealant cannot 'work' with it. Needs opening up and see state of the fitting ... possibly rebed.
Wet stained woodwork - not unusual on older boats ... need to find source of the wet ... which can be quite often NOT where you expect !! Sort the leak .. sand back the stained area ... apply suitable wood stain to regain 'colour' - then finishing lacquer.

Joys of older boats ..................

 

[mrming]

Be honest - most surveyors wouldn't know their ar** from their elbow as to what's under a teak deck ... unless they find a lifting or damaged area.

Back to photo's of OP ...

Keel joint .... typical where it has not been maintained each lift out. Needs keel and joint brought back to basics and recoated / sealed. It would be good idea to check out the keel bolts ... which may lead to dropping keel to inspect main part of bolts.
Wet patches / leak ... not unusual on an older .. or even relatively new boat ... need open up and see extent.
Those runs are indicative of DIY squirt in some sealant and hope it does the job ... always fails because the fittings 'work' and the sealant cannot 'work' with it. Needs opening up and see state of the fitting ... possibly rebed.
Wet stained woodwork - not unusual on older boats ... need to find source of the wet ... which can be quite often NOT where you expect !! Sort the leak .. sand back the stained area ... apply suitable wood stain to regain 'colour' - then finishing lacquer.

Joys of older boats ..................

To me, the OP sounds like they’re new to old boats. If so, purchasing one with an old teak deck could be a very expensive mistake. A surveyor will know enough to explain what could be wrong.

 

[Stemar]

I'm very much open to correction, but the teak deck looks to need attention, at least. The caulk appears to have a bit missing in the bottom left corner of the photo, and there are several cracks elsewhere.

As Doug says, the obvious issues beg the question about how much other "deferred maintenance" there is. While it's all fixable, you're likely to spend a lot of money putting things right, and/or a lot of time fixing stuff instead of getting out on the water. I'd either buy it as a project at a knock-down price or look elsewhere.

 

[billyfish]

Walk away...

 

[garymalmgren]

1. Opening and rust on the bolted on keel where it meets the hull. If its normal when it comes to sanding and anti foaling what would be a good way to make all this good? It goes all the way around the keel.

Is there any movement at all (wobble ) in the keel? Not sure how you could test this.

At the very least.
1, Grind out with angle grinder all round until raw iron is exposed.
2. Treat exposed iron with "anti/de-rusting product.
3. Coat with appropriate sealer.
4. Fill with epoxy filler.
5. Fair.
6. Coat with sealer.
7 Anti foul.

2. On the starboard side it looks like there is a leak from where one of the chainplates are screwed in. Could this be more serious than it looks?
Yes. It could. That doesn't mean it is.
The last photo of the deck chainplate fitting shows a rather pathetic effort of smearing everything with silicone.
The chainplate will go through the deck. It will either be sealed with a hard, inflexable sealant like epoxy filler or a flexible sealant.
Either way it has given up. Contacting a Moody owner's group will clarify this and let you know how serious or not it is.
Moody Owners Association | For owners of Moodys and Hanse built Moodys

gary

 

[Refueler]

To me, the OP sounds like they’re new to old boats.

Yep .. agree.

If so, purchasing one with an old teak deck could be a very expensive mistake. A surveyor will know enough to explain what could be wrong.

That's the problem ... as most could only advise what is POSSIBLY wrong ...

 

[Refueler]

I'm very much open to correction, but the teak deck looks to need attention, at least. The caulk appears to have a bit missing in the bottom left corner of the photo, and there are several cracks elsewhere.

As Doug says, the obvious issues beg the question about how much other "deferred maintenance" there is. While it's all fixable, you're likely to spend a lot of money putting things right, and/or a lot of time fixing stuff instead of getting out on the water. I'd either buy it as a project at a knock-down price or look elsewhere.

The questions are :

1. Is the OP ready to work on a boat ?
2. Is the price asked or agreed in line with general condition of the boat ?
3. Is the overall value of the boat worth spending out to have a surveyor check it all out - even though no surveyor is going to start dismantling / trying to get into difficult areas ... at least very few do !
4. Is OP constrained by budget - but trying to get biggest boat for his money ??

Those in my mind are the most pertinent Q's at this stage ..

 

[Graham376]

Walk away...

Yes, unless it's very cheap to reflect the condition. Keel isn't a problem but chainplate could require fairly major surgery and of course if the teak deck is knackered then major expense or extensive DIY to sort.

Moody Owners Assn allows access to website for potential buyers to ask advice. Thinking of buying a Moody ask a question here

 

[azk101]

I’ve been on the Moody forums and it seems the chainplate issue is fairly fixable, unless there are other problems waiting to be discovered.

It’s true this could be an option for the first older boat I’ll be putting a lot more time and money into to get ready for a long trip, but the good thing is I’m prepared to put the work in. I’ve been missing some solid DIY since the house renovations dried up.

Would anyone know if the decks are entirely balsa cored on a Moody 419? If there is wood rot around the opening, I gather it’s best to scrape it away and fill with epoxy and then glass over it?

With the teak decks, the chainplate covers are embedded into the teak and sit directly on the GRP, right?

I’m revisiting the boat and have asked to unscrew the wooden trim so I can see where the chainplate meets the bulkhead and inspect it properly.

As for the teak, it doesn’t seem that bad from visual, but it does need attention and that will be high on the priority list.

Copper coating is quite appealing, not just for peace of mind but also for environmental reasons, although it would have to be done DIY as I imagine professional costs are high. Will it actually save money over a three to five year period?

I'd be happy to share an bunch of photos of the teak deck to see if there are visual telltales that its at the end of its life.

A

 

[mrming]

Here's the ad if anyone wants to take a look. The interior looks nice. I wouldn't take on the teak deck personally, but it's a nice boat in many areas. The price is pretty punchy for the age and considering said deck, imo.

 

[fredrussell]

…Copper coating is quite appealing, not just for peace of mind but also for environmental reasons, although it would have to be done DIY as I imagine professional costs are high. Will it actually save money over a three to five year period?

A

As a guide, I coppercoated my 30ft boat last year. With me doing all the work it was £2k. £1k for paint and consumables, and £1k for lift in and out and moving boat to paint where props had been. It used to cost me circa £500 to antifoul each year so as long as I keep boat 4 years it’ll have been worth doing.

 

[fredrussell]

Here's the ad if anyone wants to take a look. The interior looks nice. I wouldn't take on the teak deck personally, but it's a nice boat in many areas. The price is pretty punchy for the age and considering said deck, imo.

Agreed. Nice boat with some good upgrades. Apart from teak deck if I was bring picky I’d be wanting to put some self-tailers on it, which would be a few grand on a boat of this size, and sails are getting on a bit.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

On my old boat, leaking windows and leaking chain plate fixing, resulted in a new galley and extensive bulkhead repairs. Fresh water had caused damage to these items which needed to be fixed. The galley had to dismantled to get access to the frame at the back which had been impacted. The bulkhead needed the saloon seats to be removed to repair. The chain plate deck hole had become oval, so that was another fix.

My point is, there could be damage, hidden, caused by the water ingress that you need to check.