Insurance.

[beebok]

Just had my renewal through from Pantaenius they highlighted on the summary of cover a clause which states the boat should be checked every 28days.
I queried this and the very helpful lady went away(took 5 days) to check with the underwriter and came back and said it's in the policy document section B exclusions 12.
In addition she made the following comment:

"Whilst we do not wish to be over-prescriptive in terms of what constitutes acceptable practice, the wording of the policy gives an indication that the underwriters would expect a yacht to be checked at least on a monthly basis when not in use. By way of evidence, if an owner contracts with a marina or similar to provide services, then there will normally be a log of visits and inspections. If you have a less formal arrangement in place, perhaps you would be able to save any email exchanges between you which relate to visits and inspections, conditions found and any action required or taken."

Question to you all: do you get your boat checked and visits logged?
Are you aware of this small print on your policy?

Your views would be appreciated thanks Alan

 

[benjenbav]

This doesn't seem an unreasonable point.

House insurance tends to exclude houses not occupied for X days. Policies which specifically cover empty houses tend to be reassuringly expensive.

Boats deteriorate rapidly if issues begin to arise and what can be fixed at minimal cost can quickly become a costly item.

All the boats I have owned have been inspected more frequently than on a monthly basis, partly because I was aware of my policy terms but mostly because I always felt that it was good practice.

In actual fact I would always have felt it slightly remiss of me not to look at the boat at least once a fortnight.

 

[Portofino]

Our marina staff do a roll call every Am .i,am sure if they saw a boat ( La Napoule SoF ) listing @ what ever angle or improperly moored -snapped line or what ever -they would fix as a temp measure and / or contact owner .
Marina staff are Allways moving boats via ribs for show,s and jetty maintenance issues .
Over arching this I have contracted a guardiene to look after my boat -standard 2weekly clean and check over ,plus when a storm blows in another check ,as and when .
So answering your Q = yes

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Yep, I'm also with Pants, and I also knew about this clause. While the boat is here in the UK it's easy, I'm there at least twice a week at the moment. In France in the off-season when I'm away for longer than 28 days then other local forumites check the boat from time to time and there's an email trail to support this. (In practice this is only needed maybe once a year).

 

[jfm]

Yup I am aware of this small print and see no problem with it. My boat is inspected much more often than /28 days and I have loads of evidence on that

When comparing Pants with others on this point it is important to look at it in context. First, the 28 day clause only operates as an exclusion if the vessel sinks. Second, you should bear in mind the Pants policy covers sinking due to things like electrolysis of fittings, which others don't cover in the first place. So, given that the Pants policy gives much wider cover to begin with, it is then reasonable of them to limit that extra cover by way of this 28 day clause (which as I say operates only in case of sinking).

It would make no sense to say Pants have the 28 day rule and policy XXX doesn't, and end the comparison there so concluding that XXX is better. You ought to take account of the (generally) wider exclusions in XXX.

 

[Whitelighter]

Assuming that you ise your boat every month, how do you generate an email trail to show you yourself actually inspected the boat?

I mean, lets say I just go down and sit on it, chat with a couple of mates in the marina but don't go out over the winter.

How do I prove it ME who inspected the boat?

 

[Pinnacle]

Assuming that you ise your boat every month, how do you generate an email trail to show you yourself actually inspected the boat?

I mean, lets say I just go down and sit on it, chat with a couple of mates in the marina but don't go out over the winter.

How do I prove it ME who inspected the boat?

Are not your mates witnesses?

 

[jfm]

Assuming that you ise your boat every month, how do you generate an email trail to show you yourself actually inspected the boat?

I mean, lets say I just go down and sit on it, chat with a couple of mates in the marina but don't go out over the winter.

How do I prove it ME who inspected the boat?

enter in log book. I do even when I don't go out.

 

[Whitelighter]

Are not your mates witnesses?

enter in log book. I do even when I don't go out.

On either of those two bases then, just quickly write a log or get a mate to back you up in the event of a sinking and job done

 

[bozlite]

On either of those two bases then, just quickly write a log or get a mate to back you up in the event of a sinking and job done

Yes - I suppose so. But if your insurance company refuses to pay out because they have reason to believe that you haven't been checking the boat regularly, are you really going to sue them with nothing but fraudulent evidence on your side? It'd be a very good mate who'd be prepared to perjure himself on your behalf, too.

 

[Wavey]

Interesting point. With jfm whose boat is abroad you would have flight ticket data to back up the log entry. If the boat is in the UK would the log entries alone be taken as proof?

I hadn't thought about it before but a couple of years back I acted as Executor for an Estate that involved an empty house. I had to take out a policy to cover the property until sold. That policy required the house to be visited every seven days and each visit had to be witnessed as proof I, or someone else, had actually been there. Should I be asking a member of the marina staff to witness my log entry as proof beyond all doubt I had actually been to the boat as opposed to filling it in from the comfort of my armchair?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Interesting point. With jfm whose boat is abroad you would have flight ticket data to back up the log entry. If the boat is in the UK would the log entries alone be taken as proof?

I hadn't thought about it before but a couple of years back I acted as Executor for an Estate that involved an empty house. I had to take out a policy to cover the property until sold. That policy required the house to be visited every seven days and each visit had to be witnessed as proof I, or someone else, had actually been there. Should I be asking a member of the marina staff to witness my log entry as proof beyond all doubt I had actually been to the boat as opposed to filling it in from the comfort of my armchair?

I had a similar thing with an empty development property that we bought earlier this year. The insurance broker advised that a contemporaneous log of visits would be adequate support in the event of a claim.

 

[benjenbav]

On either of those two bases then, just quickly write a log or get a mate to back you up in the event of a sinking and job done

I hear some of the modern prisons are quite pleasant.

 

[jfm]

Interesting point. With jfm whose boat is abroad you would have flight ticket data to back up the log entry. If the boat is in the UK would the log entries alone be taken as proof?

That isn't the question. The log entries would be only part of the evidence because there would be the testimony of you saying you visited the boat and if you're a good citizen that counts for a lot. (There might also be Lymington petrol station etc on your credit card, and if you lived in Birmingham with your boat at Berthons that would help too).

(I'm talking in general terms, not in my own circs. I visit the boat often and employ someone on it full time with monthly salary so it has never been unattended for 2.8 days let alone 28)

 

[jfm]

I hear some of the modern prisons are quite pleasant.

Yup. Jez your post #9 is a bit of a non point really imho; committing a crime is hardly a solution. If ever something turned on your own testimony (see my post immediately above) you'll need to hope your adversary doesn't adduce your post above during the debate. I was going to put a smiley there to signify I'm posting in friendly humour, which I am, but I didn't in case it made anyone think I'm joking. So i'll put it here

 

[jfm]

I had a similar thing with an empty development property that we bought earlier this year. The insurance broker advised that a contemporaneous log of visits would be adequate support in the event of a claim.

Yup Jimmy, contemporaneous log/notes made by an upstanding citizen count for a lot.

In my litigation for £1.5m when my unoccupied house burnt down, almost the first argument insurers raised was whether I had visited in the last 7 days (or whatever the period was). I had in fact visited 4 days prior to the fire for a very specific reason but had no witnesses or other proof. They therefore tried to discredit my claim, but I swore to having visited and their lawyers immediately backed off on this point because they knew they'd never win on this aspect. As I say, your own clear testimony counts for loads if you have a "clean record" (and if there is no indication that you might have innocently forgotten, which your contemporaneous notes deal with).

Remember also that if your boats sinks or your house burns today and your ins policy says "must visit every 7 days" you might well lose your insurance claim if you last visited 10 days ago, but you are unlikely to lose the claim if you visited 3 days ago and weekly prior to that, except that you didn't''t visit at all for say the month of June 2014. Reason being that the insurer's loss didn't flow from your lapse in June. Hence, when faced with this matter, you are generally on the front foot because you only have to remember something that happened in the last 7 days or 28 days, not way back when. That takes the pressure off contemporaneous notes, but for belt and braces I'd still say do them and I'd agree with your broker therefore

 

[rubberduck]

Does asking marina staff to check it regularly on e-mail qualify ?

 

[jfm]

Does asking marina staff to check it regularly on e-mail qualify ?

Very few things like this turn on a single point. But per se, alone, with zero other material in the policyholder's favour, then no.

 

[Portofino]

Just as a matter of interest -CCTV = . Double edged sword ??
Our Marina has a camera ( inc infrared PM vision ) pointing right down the jetty .
As they say",camera never lies " .
Not sure on the recal /memory / data storage -facility ? But presumable any owner of a sunk boat would be contacted PDQ by marina staff ' so someone could ask to see past what ever days disc ?

 

[sailorman]

Just as a matter of interest -CCTV = . Double edged sword ??
Our Marina has a camera ( inc infrared PM vision ) pointing right down the jetty .
As they say",camera never lies " .
Not sure on the recal /memory / data storage -facility ? But presumable any owner of a sunk boat would be contacted PDQ by marina staff ' so someone could ask to see past what ever days disc ?

And what if its clock / date is incorrect