Insurance Woes

[jcwads]

Unfortunately my insurer has denied my recent claim due to hitting a submerged object.

This leaves me with a 5 figure sum to replace my outdrive unit and other incurred costs.

Now, I fully intend on taking this further, but was hoping for advice on how others may have dealt with having a claim denied. The insurance companies surveyor has said my drive failed due to low oil, which is complete tosh as it was fully serviced in March by a very established marine engineer. The surveyor did not think there was enough visible damage to prove hitting something and because my prop was visibly okay and the shaft and shear tube intact they won't pay out. It was just the top gears that failed and mangled up. The prop itself looks okay but Hamble props confirmed one blade isn't true and the bushing has moved. Also my drive skeg is visibly roughed up on the underside, and given it was recently antifouled shows I must have scraped something. However because the insurer doesn't feel it's accidental damage my policy doesn't cover mechanical breakdown.

I have some choices to make. My biggest annoyance is that I am now entering a lengthily complaints process with the insurers. This means my boat is out of service indefinitely. I am tempted to get the work done and pay for it for now, just so I don't miss the season. However I am worried that may mean the insurers in the event of any success in revoking their decision, may say I got woks done without their say so.

I am also quite wary of getting a reconditioned drive as I don't want any future problems and at least a new drive is going to be warrantied and reliable.

Any advice welcome...

 

[volvopaul]

It would be nice if JFM had the time to get involved , I've sent you a pm John.

 

[DavidJ]

I won't be the first one to wonder "Who is the insurer?"
You may find things move a little faster if you mention them.

 

[ROW]

Unfortunately my insurer has denied my recent claim due to hitting a submerged object.

This leaves me with a 5 figure sum to replace my outdrive unit and other incurred costs.

Now, I fully intend on taking this further, but was hoping for advice on how others may have dealt with having a claim denied. The insurance companies surveyor has said my drive failed due to low oil, which is complete tosh as it was fully serviced in March by a very established marine engineer. The surveyor did not think there was enough visible damage to prove hitting something and because my prop was visibly okay and the shaft and shear tube intact they won't pay out. It was just the top gears that failed and mangled up. The prop itself looks okay but Hamble props confirmed one blade isn't true and the bushing has moved. Also my drive skeg is visibly roughed up on the underside, and given it was recently antifouled shows I must have scraped something. However because the insurer doesn't feel it's accidental damage my policy doesn't cover mechanical breakdown.

I have some choices to make. My biggest annoyance is that I am now entering a lengthily complaints process with the insurers. This means my boat is out of service indefinitely. I am tempted to get the work done and pay for it for now, just so I don't miss the season. However I am worried that may mean the insurers in the event of any success in revoking their decision, may say I got woks done without their say so.

I am also quite wary of getting a reconditioned drive as I don't want any future problems and at least a new drive is going to be warrantied and reliable.

Any advice welcome...

Sorry to hear about that - usual fun with insurers.

The first thing is to get your own inspection by somebody who regularly acts as an expert witness in this area. You might ask them to just write an engineer's report for now but also ensure you preserve evidence for them to write a full expert witness report if necessary in due course.

Hopefully they agree with you and then you've got two conflicting opinions and the basis for an argument with the insurer / in court.

At the moment unfortunately you don't have any independent evidence to substantiate your view on causation, but they do have evidence to refute. Sadly the onus will be on you to prove they are liable.

Hopefully the insurer will realise they're in for a fight and will make some form of offer to settle fairly quickly.

Once you've preserved the evidence by getting an expert witness report, I don't see why you shouldn't get it replaced but you'll need someone (ideally your expert witness) to specify the works required and then get quotes. Otherwise they'll argue all the work isn't necessary and / or was overpriced.

You might argue you've mitigated your losses by getting the outdrive replaced now rather than chartering an alternative vessel while your boat is out of commission!

Having said all of that I doubt it's worth suing them for £10k-ish given the legal costs will probably be more than that. That said it costs them to defend as well so they will hopefully make you an offer to settle.

 

[julians]

Id definitely get the drive repaired yourself so you dont miss the season


What type of drive is it? I had a merc alpha 1 fail in a similar way to what you describe(upper gears failed) but in my case it definitly wasnt due to hitting anything,so i just paid to have it rebuilt.in my case there was no evidence of hitting anything,it was just a mechanical failure,so i didnt even attempt to claim

i also had a similar'ish problem with a volvo dph drive where the prop shaft itself sheared, causing the rearmost prop to drop to the bottom of the ocean

in the case of the dph drive the insurance paid out without any questions or inspection needed

In your case i am surprised that there isnt more visible damage on the props and drive casing, if youd hit something to cause the upper gears to fail youd have thought there would be substantial and visible damage to the prop and casing,but im just a layman,so id guess you need to appoint an independent expert to inspect yours and offer an opinion on what caused the failure

 

[Jim@sea]

I would try and find a Chartered Loss Assessor to make a claim, He could suggest that you get your own Independent Survey, perhaps done by a Volvo Agent, you could also consider getting an Exchange Outdrive and pay the additional cost they will charge you for not returning the "Old Unit". (which you retain until the dispute is over)
If the Insurance Company have rejected your claim it could have been just done as a routine matter where they know a large percentage of claimants give up at this stage. By taking it further they will have to appoint a Chartered Loss Adjuster who will then argue with your Chartered Loss Assessor.
Also perhaps get a Volvo Agent to do an Estimate to repair the damage, i.e To repairing accident damaged Outdrive Leg.
Good Luck.

 

[Boat2016]

What sort of drive are you getting for a 5 figure sum? Sounds like we could be talking about something fairly new here?

 

[CLB]

What sort of drive are you getting for a 5 figure sum? Sounds like we could be talking about something fairly new here?

A bit of digging through old posts finds that the OP has a Monteray with VP D4, so probably a DPH drive.

 

[Portofino]

I thought a bit like shear pins in OB props , is there not a "go to " weak link
That is designed to shear in the event of a prop strike ? AND be easily and cheaply replaced ?

If this is still intact --- ( what ever it's called ?) and the insurers via manufacturers engineers rock up in court with that evidence - I thing you will be knackered .

If the force to snap the " upper gears " is X times greater normally , but the upper gears fail with loss of lub , which is wear n tear .
Have you got a robust paper trail of official VP approved dealer service -on time using genuine parts ?
What I,am asking here. Is when was the last time the gears were removed and measured with a Dial gauge and /micrometer and appropriate seals replaced (not because they were leaking ) -just time service ? By the VP book .

How do you know the oil did not leak -seems
Plausible as the lower shear pin thingy ( assume there is one ?) is intact and props ok to naked eye .

 

[Portofino]

I thought a bit like shear pins in OB props , is there not a "go to " weak link
That is designed to shear in the event of a prop strike ? AND be easily and cheaply replaced ?

If this is still intact --- ( what ever it's called ?) and the insurers via manufacturers engineers rock up in court with that evidence - I thing you will be knackered .

If the force to snap the " upper gears " is X times greater normally , but the upper gears fail with loss of lub , which is wear n tear .
Have you got a robust paper trail of official VP approved dealer service -on time using genuine parts ?
What I,am asking here. Is when was the last time the gears were removed and measured with a Dial gauge and /micrometer and appropriate seals replaced (not because they were leaking ) -just time service ? By the VP book .

How do you know the oil did not leak -seems
Plausible as the lower shear pin thingy ( assume there is one ?) is intact and props ok to naked eye .

 

[Richard10002]

I would try and find a Chartered Loss Assessor to make a claim, He could suggest that you get your own Independent Survey, perhaps done by a Volvo Agent, you could also consider getting an Exchange Outdrive and pay the additional cost they will charge you for not returning the "Old Unit". (which you retain until the dispute is over)
If the Insurance Company have rejected your claim it could have been just done as a routine matter where they know a large percentage of claimants give up at this stage. By taking it further they will have to appoint a Chartered Loss Adjuster who will then argue with your Chartered Loss Assessor.
Also perhaps get a Volvo Agent to do an Estimate to repair the damage, i.e To repairing accident damaged Outdrive Leg.
Good Luck.

+1 on the Loss Assessor. Makes insurance companies a bit angry as they know you mean business.

 

[gjgm]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I have also had the top gears fail- or rather physically explode through the casing. It certainly sounded like I had hit something- like a WW2 mine. I don't think I did hit anything, just seems one or more of the cogs failed and that was that.
It is possible that something has caused a failure in the oil seal;get ready for a potential bang. It also possible that some previous incident weakened the cogs and then some time later...bang.
I have hit the props, many years ago, and there was not much left of the props, rather than slight deviation in a blade. I would not know the engineering to hand, but personally would think that if you hit something so hard that it shears the top gearing there would be some fairly obvious and substantial external carnage.