Insurance, surveys and older boats (again)

[pragmatist]

I know insurance has been tackled many times on these fora but am prompted to review it again while we're 6 months off the date instead of the usual rush. Was just reading on the Rival Owners forum about problems insuring older boats and the price increases from certain insurers.

However, our current insurer doesn't ask for a periodic survey as our previous one did, and indeed when I asked them again last year they wouldn't take us on again since our last survey was 9 yrs ago. A survey plus changing insurer would have amounted to more than the current premium.

So can people please tell me of their experiences :

1) Does your insurer require a survey and if so how often ?
2) Does your insurer require standing rigging to be changed on a regular basis ?
3) Have you had insurance refused on the grounds of age of boat (and if so, how old) ?
4) Does your insurer permit 12 months in commission ?
5) Do they permit single-handing ?

The other issue, which is perhaps more relevant to the LiveAboard forum and so I may be wicked and post there too, is :

6) Does your insurer change the terms if you want to change or extend area ? (the current one is straightforward if pricey - the last one was very fiddly about terms, number of crew)

TIA

 

[mikewilkes]

[ QUOTE ]
However, our current insurer doesn't ask for a periodic survey as our previous one did, and indeed when I asked them again last year they wouldn't take us on again since our last survey was 9 yrs ago. A survey plus changing insurer would have amounted to more than the current premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have the same problem. For next year I am being asked to pay out the neck end of 500 odd GBP for an annual premium of 250.

Seems a wee bit out of proportion!!!

 

[Nauti Fox]

We have to survey every 3 years, the boat was built in 72.

 

[Paulhg]

I work within the yacht & Pleasure caft insurance industry and own a boat so hear are my answers to your question and little more


1 Almost all will require a survey once the boat gets to 20/25 years of age then a resurvey every 5/10 years some underwriters will accept condition reports from boatyards but only for the low value boats but it's always best to ask first then spend.

2 Rigging again some have different rules ie racing boats some 10 yrs also type of boat Sigma 33 most say 5 years also depends on what the surveyor said in his report but most cruising boats its 10 years best to check again what the company policy is on this again most rigging companies will do a report for about £100 which should be good for about 3/5 yrs

3 Yes some companies do again, there is no line in the sand on this down to the individual underwritter I have seen what I think is OK and they have said know then another day he will insure a part rebulit 90 year old boat I would not put my dog on.

4 depends on your location & mooring type but some will & some won't lots of variables on this subject.

5 Yes again some will some won't best to check before you buy some limit by hours or miles or no over night etc etc etc.

6Yes most will do if you change your cruising area again lots of variables & risk etc.

I would be very cautious if the did not ask for a survey on any boat over 20 years of age or last survey over 10 years ago best way to check
it out. All persons/brokers selling insurance in the UK must be registered with the FSA if not they are breaking the law visit www.fsa.gov.uk and check the register, use name or post code or ask them for their FRN Firms Reference Number also ask who the underwritter is and are they UK or offshore
if UK it's ok if off shore you may have no legal rights in the UK !!!!! you may have employ a solicitor in say spain or the caribbean etc.

The law on insurance & the FSA only came into Force on 14/1/05 and yes some people are trading that are not regisitered.

It does not cost any thing to ask questions and by Law they should state on their web site that they are regulated so you know you have the FSA to protect you.


We still check out the people we are dealing on the FSA web site it's free and it only takes a couple of seconds but some companies use diffent trading names to their regisitered FSA name so ask them if you are not sure they have nothing to hide.

The FSA is there to protect you the insurance buying public firstly. But you will notice the next time you get any insurance renewal by the mountain of paper that comes with it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[cliff]

[ QUOTE ]
I know insurance has been tackled many times on these fora but am prompted to review it again while we're 6 months off the date instead of the usual rush. Was just reading on the Rival Owners forum about problems insuring older boats and the price increases from certain insurers.

However, our current insurer doesn't ask for a periodic survey as our previous one did, and indeed when I asked them again last year they wouldn't take us on again since our last survey was 9 yrs ago. A survey plus changing insurer would have amounted to more than the current premium.

So can people please tell me of their experiences :

1) Does your insurer require a survey and if so how often ?
2) Does your insurer require standing rigging to be changed on a regular basis ?
3) Have you had insurance refused on the grounds of age of boat (and if so, how old) ?
4) Does your insurer permit 12 months in commission ?
5) Do they permit single-handing ?

The other issue, which is perhaps more relevant to the LiveAboard forum and so I may be wicked and post there too, is :

6) Does your insurer change the terms if you want to change or extend area ? (the current one is straightforward if pricey - the last one was very fiddly about terms, number of crew)

TIA

[/ QUOTE ]1) Does your insurer require a survey and if so how often ? <font color="red">YES, on Purchase </font>
2) Does your insurer require standing rigging to be changed on a regular basis ? <font color="red"> NO </font>
3) Have you had insurance refused on the grounds of age of boat (and if so, how old) ? <font color="red"> NO</font>
4) Does your insurer permit 12 months in commission ? Most certainly <font color="red">YES </font>
5) Do they permit single-handing ? <font color="red"> Yes indeed</font>

The other issue, which is perhaps more relevant to the LiveAboard forum and so I may be wicked and post there too, is :

6) Does your insurer change the terms if you want to change or extend area ? (the current one is straightforward if pricey - the last one was very fiddly about terms, number of crew) <font color="red"> Small surcharge to extend the area likewise to change the area - actually cheaper to extend rather than change.</font>
----------

 

[VicMallows]

I can see a situation developing where there will be a great many uninsured boats .... as is the case with cars (1 in 10 is bandied around; though that's probably a bit extreme). Of course, not illegal (yet) and equally no 'uninsured driver fund' for when someone sinks you.

What worries me most is that the litiguous nature of society now, along with nanny-state politics and other do-gooders will simply price many of us out of various markets altogether. Who benefits then?

Vic

 

[Lakesailor]

You can still insure your boat Third Party. It usually doesn't require a survey, which for an older or very cheap boat is an expense that you may not feel is justified, but still protects you against third party claims. Not a great deal cheaper though.

 

[Guest]

Insure or not ...

It may not be illegal in UK to not insure - BUT you will not be able to enter any harbour or port under HM or Authority control - as they require 3rd Party cover to £xxxxxxx .... so arriving uninsured is illegal then.
No Mooring provider or Club will accept you without adequate cover .....

So really its not necessary to legislate about it - its already covered by HM and Clubs / Marinas etc.

I personally have good 3rd Party cover at a lot cheaper than the full cover previously - via Basic Boat Liability ..... but then again - my boats only a £10K max anyway .... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[VicMallows]

Re: Insure or not ...

Which? the little one /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seriously, anyone who has meaningful assets should be paranoid about third-party liability. The commonest fallacy I come across is:

"Oh it's alright, your wife can drive my car". NO ... only I am covered (third party only) to drive another car. She, as named second driver ISN'T. (I know years ago some of us had 'any-driver' policies, but I'd doubt you'd find many with them these days.) On rare occaisons when I drive someone else's car I spell out to them in words of few sylables that if there is a smash, there is no insurance for damage to their car.

Vic

 

[sailorbob]

Re: Insure or not ...

Vic - I may have mis-understood your post, but you seem to be making a connection between the liability on your car policy and your boat policy. The two are different!

A car policy will usually cover the liability of the policy holder to drive any car, but most boat policies are the reverse. It is usual for the boat named on the policy to be covered for other skippers. NOTE you will not be covered to sail another boat.

In this litigious society, don't ever take the risk of not taking out liability cover. One silly error could see you lose everything you have worked for all your life. It may sound melodramatic, but IMHO its not worth it.

 

[Mirelle]

1) Does your insurer require a survey and if so how often ?

Boat gets surveyed every five years for my own peace of mind; every time the surveyor finds something I missed. I reckon if ships need it so do yachts.

2) Does your insurer require standing rigging to be changed on a regular basis ?

Not after the surveyor talked some sense into them. (10mm galvanised...)

3) Have you had insurance refused on the grounds of age of boat (and if so, how old) ?

Yes, by the East Coast Mutual, who have an age limit of 30, when she was 57. Fair enough!

4) Does your insurer permit 12 months in commission ?

Yes.

5) Do they permit single-handing ?

Yes. but "not for all night passages" (the solution is that of course you were "about to anchor...")

 

[VicMallows]

Re: Insure or not ...

No. It was indeed the point you are making in last paragraph that I was trying to get across. Hence scared silly when people say to SWMBO "just use my car. It's fully insured".

Yes, she (or anyone else, as long as not commercial venture) can take the boat anywhere Brest/Elbe/canals....single handed (though not intentionally at night ... lost that when last changed insurers .... though fine if 2 on board but one is asleep).

Vic