Nanny state. Personal freedom to wear or not wear a life jacket is up to the person. I only ever wear a life jacket subject to the weather. I only ever clip on to the boat subject to the weather. On a calm day seeing boat users dressed up for heavy weather looks rediculous.
two strokes aren’t actually banned - nobody decided that combustion must have four strokes, the rules ban import or manufacture of engines which don’t meet emissions and noise regulations. The consequence was low tech, old school petrol 2 strokes were no longer legal. However container ships don’t burn petrol, so any comparison is naive. I’m sure they are polluting, but as they travel globally it’s not a unilateral decision to ban them (unless you want to pay Waaaay more for all your imported stuff to come on a fleet of eco ships). The consequence of tighter rules is to push the 4 stroke designers to work harder on low rpm torque (a two stroke is not more powerful it just had more torque at lower revs), lighter engines etc. and it’s probably helped make electric o/b market more viable; which for the average yacht tender is actually a very good solution. However regardless of the engine there’s no sensible reason not to fit and use a kill cord.
Is it naive to compare a petrol two stroke with a two stroke that basicly burns heated crude oil and has to switch to diesel when in European waters or US waters but can pump out thousands of tonnes of crap when crossing oceans.
Eh, none of this discussion has been triggered by the state. It seems perfectly reasonable that an Insurer refuses to cover those not using a simple safety device. Why should everyone else’s premium be loaded because some people don’t bother and cause huge harm if it goes wrong?
My very unscientific gut feel is there are more recreational water users who drown in the U.K. in good weather than bad… now some of that is about nice weather bringing more people out, but surely there’s also a complacency factor.
The discussion was about tenders - I don’t think anyone clips on a tender!
I often get “dressed up” for the dinghy ride - not for safety but because it keeps me dry! I don’t really care if I look ridiculous but have dry pants for the drive home. If you mean life jackets then publicly criticising those who do decide to wear them seems to contradict your opening statement that it is up to the person.
I am surprised you ever leave your house. Have not had an insurance company demand I wear a life jacket but I suppose it will come due to people who think 'let's bring out another rule/law to keep people safe'
Totally agree. A couple of terms come to mind. Personal responsibility. Seamanship. Getting into a dinghy, drunk, is in itself an excercise in very poor seamanship at best, likewise not knowing what your doing in a dinghy as well. In 45 yrs I have never fallen out of or capsized a tender and Ive been in some hairy situations where if Id turned side on we would have flipped.. etc. People who struggle to look after themselves are just feeding the Industries baked in need to force more and more legislation on us, making them more money, and our sailing increasingly intolerable.
It does, although I suspect that will be increasingly hard.
I am 100% with you there, and my closing sentence in post 13 was exactly about that point. The only way you can avoid such carve-outs is for government to mandate insurance like we have on the roads.
I just luv your last paragraph. Keep that thinking up and spread that thinking where and whenever you can. If I go too far it will be considered political or controversial and I will be cancelled.
'Government mandate insurance'
I cannot pronounce it let alone know what the word means.
Because I wear a kill cord and lifejacket in the tender?
I don't think anybody has, or suggested they should. The only policy I ever recall requiring such things was for towing water skiers etc (where an impact vest not LJ was mandatory for the skier). This is typical nonsense that people who are outraged that they are being encouraged to use a kill cord come out with.
You have a right to choose but I'll judge you for doing so. The alternative is you are standing on the dock cutting people's life jackets or oil skins off shouting about real sailors don't need this - your argument is ridiculous.
Real sailors take precautions when and whether required. I will ask you a simple question. Have you ever tried swimming in a life jacket or tried getting out of the water with a life jacket on....... Try it, you are in for a scary shock. You will never climb back on board without deflating the jacket because the large bulge on your chest will get in the way of everything. I would say zip up personal buoyancy waistcoat type jackets are far better.
And dead sailors are often people who didn’t know when it would be required!
Yes I have. I fully accept that swimming in a lifejacket is near impossible, and even swimming in Bouyancy aid is hard work.
I have climbed ladders with even a 275N LJ and it’s seriously awkward but not impossible- of course there is a little tube that you can deflate some or all (and even reinflate with your mouth) if you really need to.
I’ve no issue if someone prefers a Bouyancy aid. The thread was really about kill cords though - I only mentioned lifejackets because I saw an example which had no L/j, k/c and didn’t even have hand on the tiller.
I think this is a very legitimate question. In many yacht outboard installations the engine is hanging off the back where it’s either impossible or impractical or even more dangerous to be perched there. I think if you have such a set up you would be right to take pictures and ask your underwriter to agree….
Well the easy options are either that she has one on her LJ at all times (that what I used to do in the rib) or the spare immediately at the helm. There is an argument that if you were helming and somehow managed to fall off your boat that something weird has happened and the boat is out of control turning sharply? So prospect of your crew making it from say the bow to stern safely might be reduced? But if I had your boat I would be challenging my insurer that just because the engine has a k/c it might not be essential to use it.