lustyd
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t wear one sitting on a pier, same danger. You can’t plan for everything.
Insurance Renewal - Outboard Kill Cord Clause
- Thread starter RunAgroundHard
- Start date
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
...and if total loss of consciousness requires mitigation then nobody should be driving.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Well, it does require mitigation if it is a known medical condition, it has to be self reported, which likely will involve removal of license. Unfortunately, lying, and failure to disclose, resulted in deaths in Glasgow by a professional driver a few years ago. Self reporting is not limited to professional drivers e.g. stroke and epilepsy being obvious examples.
Beelzebub
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. Falling from a dinghy is a well known cause of death, particularly after an evening visit ashore. You may not care if you snuff it but it's unfair on the others who get called out to deal with your arrogance.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
I don’t drink and drive either
It isn‘t arrogance, it’s just being sensible. There’s nothing dangerous about a dinghy ride for fit, healthy and sober people. If you want to get smashed and take the risk then you’re just as likely to die in your lifejacket as not.ylop
Well-Known Member
I think I am right in saying that more yachtsmen drown on the trip ashore/back than from falling off at sea. I wasn’t trying to start a L/J argument, merely pointing out that often no kill cord people have same confidence, which then leads to things like no hands for the Instagram moment etc. I’ve certainly been in the dinghy in conditions where I doubt I could row where I want to go never mind swim - your confidence of reaching safety in clothing, with cold shock etc is impressive. I know someone who made it to his boat but no longer had the strength to deploy and climb the ladder.
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Boathook
Well-Known Member
I'm just sorting out new insurance with N&G. I can't see any mention about single handed or restrictions.... kill chord ... noted
If you are with N&G, check your renewal carefully. Since their change of owner last year, they introduced a whole range of new clauses but set defaults in the policy (usually "no") that didn't match my circumstances, eg single handed = no etc.
The fine tooth comb was needed as were several calls to them.
Does have an interesting cruising range -
Afloat on Inland and Coastal waters up to 12 nautical miles offshore of the United Kingdom and Europe.
How do I cross the Channel to France / CI's or even get to the Isles of Scilly and crossing Lyme Bay Portland to Start Point ?
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
That seems harsh. Our boat is Cat B, and we are insured for exactly that.
ylop
Well-Known Member
This map conveniently shows the 12 NM boundary. It is possible to get to France, and therefore the Channel Islands, and the Scillies and go from Portland to Start Point although the preferred routes may take you beyond the limits. All you do then is call you insurer and extend the scope - possibly for a premium increase or possibly with special restrictions like no singlehanding over 24 hrs etc. There's lots of boats that never leave the Solent who are paying an extra premium because they've defaulted to some all of Europe policy. Or possibly because once 10 years ago they did go to France and now they keep renewing on the same terms.
Assume you are saying its insured so long as operating within the RCD definition of Cat B? What happens if you find yourself in circumstances which were not forecast with F9 or significant waves >4m? Does the limitation apply when you are sailing or when its on a mooring? So if F9 is forecast you need to lift the boat out?
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
We were talking about cruising area I believe. We are insured for that range. You can’t help the weather, it would be ‘unreasonable’ for us to anticipate a summer storm, say. So no, we don’t have unreasonable terms. In fact we have 12 months in commission.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry if I'm being thick here - buy you said your boat is Cat B (who's category) and "we are insured for exactly that" which I assumed you meant Cat B! If you meant you are insured for 12NM UK and Europe - then why is it harsh (your words) for Boathook but you dont have unreasonable terms (also your words)?
johnalison
Well-Known Member
Unless I have missed something, I don't think anyone was referring to a sailing boat, or even a powerboat, but chiefly tenders and RIBs with outboards. The wearing of lifejackets is basically a personal choice but a kill-cord is a matter of public as well as personal interest. You could make out a case, I suppose for the need for a kill-cord on any motorised craft, but that isn't going to happen. In any case, while the accidental absence of a driver is quite common on small boats, it must be very rare on larger craft. Yachtsmen tend to fall overboard while sailing, when they are more likely to be killed by the autopilot.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Your words, lets pass that by. We are insured for Cat B range. 200 miles offshore. 12 months in commission. Pretty sure that was obvious, we all have moments
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Perhaps that's the difference between us. I don't make trips in such conditions in the first place. Taking unnecessary risks may well be a result of too much life saving equipment inspiring over-confidence.
But yes, I do open water swimming and understand cold water very well. I can confidently say that I could swim a mile at any time of year in UK waters without too much trouble, and could then climb my very easy to deploy ladder to the sugar scoop. What I absolutely cannot do is swim a mile in a deployed life jacket, nor could I probably deploy or climb my ladder in one.
ylop
Well-Known Member
aye that will be it! I can assure you that I’m a pretty cautious sailor but the reality of a boat on a mooring is that I may arrive there after a 2h drive to find things livlier than I expected or get back to my mooring with a need to get ashore in marginal condition. I would be surprised if your Scottish travels never result in you using the dinghy in conditions where swimming in oilies would be seriously hard. To be clear I’m not criticising people who don’t wear LJs in dinghies even though I do, I’m commenting that often those who don’t wear kill cords also don’t take any other risk mitigation either.
Well I think that’s the difference between us. I might be able to do a mile in a pool in swimming trunks but it’s been decades since I last did that and I have a lot more natural Bouyancy now ;-)
You can always deflate (and if necessary reinflate) a lifejacket if it’s in the way for climbing ladders etc.
Boathook
Well-Known Member
I've spoken to N&G and they made a mistake in the coverage wording. Now got the standard UK waters, Elbe to Brest, etc.
Also managed to find the bit about singlehanded. No more than 24 hours at any one time. Doesn't specify the break required, but I would want a good 24 hours regardless.
ylop
Well-Known Member
No I still don’t understand where “Cat B range = 200 miles offshore” is coming from? Is that your particular insurer’s label? It’s not a term I recall from any marine policy I’ve have in the last 30 odd years.Your words, lets pass that by. We are insured for Cat B range. 200 miles offshore. 12 months in commission. Pretty sure that was obvious, we all have moments
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Fairly trivial point but I think you've got it the wrong way round. It's easier to swim in a strong wind/waves than it is to row.
Montessier pointed this out in one of his books. I only tested it once but he was right. Needed to get to a boat anchored in bay in a strong onshore wind. There's no way I could have rowed out, it was swimmable, though. I got there and back.
Clearly there are plenty of times when you can't swim *or* row.
ylop
Well-Known Member
Ah well that may be true but I can’t imagine wanting to test it!
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Its like drawing teeth…. The boat is an RCD category B. Which is offshore, up to 200 miles. The insurers are happy with that.