insurance question after someone hit the boat....

[Jason14]

So this is the third time someone has hit our boat and i havent claimed yet just because usually the damage is minimal.

the first time just dented our boarding ladders and horse shoe, for the sake of a £50 horse shoe and a little work on the ladders i didnt bother with the excess etc.

The next time someone hit the boat while it was on a trot mooring and they disappeared into the night without a trace, the only thing i knew about it was all the black marks down the side of it and a nice big scratch in the gel coat, that was alot of elbow grease and about £300 for me to fix it myself... borderline weather i should of claimed, but with the mystery boat not taking ownership for their crappy seamanship i didnt pursue it.. but swore alot while fixing it

so third time unlucky... someone got blew into me on my swinging mooring and has dented the bow pulpit and scuffed it all over and there are now stress cracks on all the bases, the boats quite old anyway of the 90s vintage and by no means in perfect condition but was in good condition none the less, but i really just want to go sailing rather than spend the season fixing this nonsense, or letting the insurers deal with while i want to be sailing...
i mean i dont want to get into an argument about the stress cracks already being there etc etc, although i have a few pictures from this winters maintenance showing otherwise...

equally i dont want my premiums to go up (because they will despite whos at fault), at least the guy was honest and admitted it, although the harbour master witnessed it so not sure if that had anything to do with it, anyway he said the guy would call me, and they have logged it as an incident and have his details as he's in the same harbour, but should i be calling my insurance? i dont really know what the protocol is or weather i should claim? or how to claim? it happened on Saturday and no call yet.....

i estimate a new bow pulpit will be £700 ish(unless by some miracle someone can un bend it and polish it up?), and the fiberglass work and gelcoat could come in at another 300-500 maybe plus the time i cant go sailing which is the most infuriating part

so lets guestimate at £1200 worse case, my excess is £450, which i guess like cars i could claim back from the other boat?

also my forestay chainplate is connected to the bow pulpit, or other way round but anyway should i be checking the rigging professionally?

if i do claim can i just get the work done in the winter rather than ruin my sailing season, assuming there is no damage to the forestay? it was a motorboat and got caught up in my mooring chain too, not sure if there is any damage to the bow roller without looking closer either, quite difficult to assess it fully on the swing mooring.

i know accidents happen etc, but i still dont know for the life of me how someone with a functioning engine managed to hit my boat, just as the weather turns too, typical! any advise is welcome.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I would inform your insurance co of the incident, explaining that you have details of the "culprit" and ask their advice. They should be able to recoup all the costs from the other party and ultimately it shouldnt affect you.

 

[Scotsailor]

I would only inform the insurance company if you are certain that you are going to make a claim.

 

[Jason14]

I would inform your insurance co of the incident, explaining that you have details of the "culprit" and ask their advice. They should be able to recoup all the costs from the other party and ultimately it shouldnt affect you.

yeah but when a bus wrote off my car some years ago (it was parked outside my house) my premiums went up by £250 per year for the next 5 years because i had a "claim" on my history regardless of fault.

i assume boats will be the same, and with a trip to the med later this year and eventually the Atlantic and Caribbean, insurance premiums are a significant portion of my budget already without having a claim on file regardless of fault to cater for too.

thats my concern anyway, i've never heard of anyone not having increased premiums due to claims regardless of fault. even ticking that box this morning for an quick online quote increased my european crusing insurance quote by £670, so i may aswell repair the damage if that's the case...

and as soon as i inform them, there is no going back, and im not sure if i even want to make a claim? thats kinda what im asking as it could cost me significantly more to make a claim in the long run.

 

[Dan Tribe]

I have made 2 claims in the last 20 years. Neither time did I notice a significant increase in premiums. GJW were very helpful and took all the aggro away fom me, even when one of the claims was due to my negligence.
Boat insurance seems to be different to car insurance where you seem to be partly liable for just being there.

 

[Tranona]

Depends on your insurance. If you have only third party you will have to claim on the other party. If you have all risks then claim on your own insurance - that is what you have paid for. Up to them to recoup from the third party. doubt your premiums will increase because of one (relatively) small claim. Your insurer will expect you to get a couple of quotes but the repair will be a contract between you and the repairer. Doubt they will question your claim with the evidence you have.

 

[Moodysailor]

Several years ago, after a no-fault car accident which was settled easily, when I questioned why my premium had gone up my insurer advised me that "sir, it's a no-claim bonus, not a no-blame bonus"

I've never forgotten those words, and will always look at my excess and hassle factor before deciding whether to involve insurance.....

If you can settle with the other vessel owner, even if it means a deal, sound to me like that could be a preferable option?

 

[oldharry]

yeah but when a bus wrote off my car some years ago (it was parked outside my house) my premiums went up by £250 per year for the next 5 years because i had a "claim" on my history regardless of fault.

i assume boats will be the same, and with a trip to the med later this year and eventually the Atlantic and Caribbean, insurance premiums are a significant portion of my budget already without having a claim on file regardless of fault to cater for too.

thats my concern anyway, i've never heard of anyone not having increased premiums due to claims regardless of fault. even ticking that box this morning for an quick online quote increased my european crusing insurance quote by £670, so i may as well repair the damage if that's the case...

and as soon as i inform them, there is no going back, and im not sure if i even want to make a claim? thats kinda what im asking as it could cost me significantly more to make a claim in the long run.

That should not have happened in a 'no fault' accident. When somebody lost it on ice and wrote my car off, my premium did not change, nor did I lose NCB. Ditto my boat on the second day of a fortnights cruise when the rigging got snagged by a passing boat in a marina. (Its a complicated story!) . The Insurers immediately put me in touch with a rigger to check it. Mast down by lunch time and back up the next morning, and on my way rejoicing!

No change in premium in either case.

If the premium goes up its time to shop around in my view....

 

[Irish Rover]

The other owner may have concerns about his insurance premiums as well so you might be able to do a deal whereby neither of you needs to report/claim. That would certainly be the first option here in Turkey.

 

[doug748]

Someone hit me whilst I was aboard on a mooring so I had full details and he admitted he was at fault. I spoke to my insurance (just in case) to ask general advice, they were fine. I pursued the matter via the chap's insurance and all went well. So I would hope it operates in a sensible manner, not like car insurance.

I did all I could to keep the repair inexpensive for the insurers, did not put in any daft claims for compensation, listed all the things I was not claiming for (eg delivering the boat to the yard, hauling out etc), suggested an up front cash settlement and they sent a cheque by return of post.

.

 

[neil_s]

You have a witness - the harbour master. Tell your insurance company.

 

[Graham376]

I think you have to notify your insurer and they usually arrange surveyor to visit. We've been hit twice on moorings. First time in UK other boat's insurers paid. Second time, the ferry which hit us had no insurance so claimed on ours. In both cases no loss of NCB and I tendered for repairs (€3,000) on second incident and got the repair job. If surveyor says your boat is serviceable, put repairs off until autumn.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'd claim. The main reason I say that is that you don't know how much damage there is behind the stress cracks you mention. There's the potential for invisible damage to the laminate, and you need a survey to check that. A collision bad enough to cause the visible damage you report might easily cause unseen damage to the hull-deck joint, or have permitted water to get into a cored deck, requiring substantial work to make it good. Claim, because you need a professional opinion about the damage, and it could be a lot more than you think.

 

[oldharry]

I think you have to notify your insurer and they usually arrange surveyor to visit. We've been hit twice on moorings. First time in UK other boat's insurers paid. Second time, the ferry which hit us had no insurance so claimed on ours. In both cases no loss of NCB and I tendered for repairs (€3,000) on second incident and got the repair job. If surveyor says your boat is serviceable, put repairs off until autumn.

Good point, if nothing else you need a Surveyor to check those stress cracks are not indicative of more serious hidden structural damage

Antarctic Pilot beat me to it.. makes the point. Get it checked.

 

[RJJ]

We had this last year, very similar except no damage to the rigging. A passing boat had engine failure and drifted into us on the tide, trashing the pushpit, bimini and a couple of planks of teak, with consequent minor fibreglass repairs.

It's at your own insurer's discretion whether to put your premium up; it's at your discretion whether to tell them. They might decide they've learned you're in a higher-risk mooring then they had estimated. So for me personally, the first step is for you to speak to the other guy's loss adjuster. You can politely and firmly inform them of the condition you want the yacht restored to, and of the damage you personally have noted so far. If they quibble, you can threaten to bring in a surveyor at their expense, which they won't like and will push back on.

I would only go to your insurer if you decide the other guy / his insurer are failing to get the repairs done to an acceptable standard, and you'd rather claim yourself than go to court.

In our experience, the other insurer was very reasonable. They preferred not to have a surveyor; they were happy for me to get the job done entirely by a local yard which they appointed as lead contractor; which then went ahead and procured the steel fabrication, canvas, teak repair and the rest. All was done in a fortnight to a good standard and no concerns. I'm afraid you can't get off the neck-pain that is liaising with the various yards, specifying the work and getting quotes.

Don't sign off the job-spec as "complete" until you have the expert advice of the contractor!! Don't do it! We didn't have any problems, but you want their view of the damage inside/outside/upside/down in case there's something you missed. Tell the insurance company that's the basis on which you're proceeding; if not then you'll get a surveyor and invoice them the extra cost.

The surveyor won't know any better than a decent shipwright / yard; what he will do is charge £££ to write it all up formally. Hence the most efficient approach is to engage the yard and ensure (1) they have their eyes open for extra damage (2) they are chosen to your satisfaction (3) you are happy they aren't too much in the insurer's pocket (4) their reputation lies with doing good and complete work for you, the customer.

My only regret is that I realise I missed the opportunity to get a solar arch made up; the insurance payout would have covered about half of it; so if there's anything there you'd like to reconfigure do take the chance.

It's all a negotiation of course. You can discuss what's a reasonable timeframe (and that you want to go sailing this summer). If you have a yard lined up to do the work, the insurer will probably play ball.

 

[Aeolus]

I would get a quote from my local shipwright for the repairs, then write to the owner of the boat that hit you enclosing a copy of the quote and asking that he agree to pay it. If he agrees, take the money, pay the shipwright and don't involve surveyors or the insurance companies at all. If the other party doesn't agree to pay, then ask your insurance company to handle it.

He may decide to involve his insurance company in your claim but that's up to him.

 

[Tranona]

It is important to remember the difference between your insurance and claiming on a third party. If you are insured all risks then you have a contract with your insurer for the repair of any damage or loss up to the value of the sum insured. If you choose to claim on a third party, you are claiming against the individual who will then pass the claim onto his insurer who indemnifies him. For such a claim to be successful, first you have to demonstrate he was negligent - and despite his admission his insurer may fight it. Your claim aginst him and his insurer is on ly to put you back in the position you were before the incident and the insurer may well seek to fight to reduce the claim even if they admit liability.

If you are confident that the third party insurer will pay up in full then clearly you can save your excess. On the other hand if you are risk averse and would prefer no hassle, get quotes and claim off your own insurer and let them deal with the third party.