Insurance: Let-out clause? / Duty of care

[Judders]

I am presuming that nearly all forumites insure their boats either as private individuals or as small sole trader businesses with a turnover of less than £1million.

What people have failed to grasp in the last couple of years, and I include a lot of underwriters in this, is that the MIA1906 is really not that relavent anymore. If an insured was to take the matter to law, his lawyers would be exceptionally foolhardy to advise him not to take the action through the FOS first. If you go to court without having gone to an available course of arbitration then you are simply going to rile the judge and be sent packing.

The FOS will not look at the case in terms of law, but in terms of what is 'reasonable'. I fear a few red faces in the Insurance industry if underwriters continue to try to apply the law as it relates to merchantmen to our recreational sailing yachts.

I should reiterate however, there are plenty of experienced guys in the market who disagree with me.

 

[Rustyknight]

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Finally! In all these threads it seems that nobody is willing to acknowledge that we do not know the reason for the repudiation. It is assumed that it is because of gross-negligence. If it is, then the insurer will struggle with the FOS (it will not go to court). The liklihood is that there is another reason entirely, be that a misrepresentation at proposal stage or something none of us have yet thought of.

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Not quite true..... a few of us did mention this in main thread a few days ago, but it mostly got lost in the noise. (is there a angelic/saintly/smug git smiley?)

 

[Guest]

Yep, but it's been said fairly regularly that we don't know all the facts of the case, we're making lots of assumptions etc. The gross negligence/reckless issue is just the obvious one from the story on its face - sailing into the bottom of a cliff, especially in the light of the father's comment about knowing that the insurance company was going to be difficult.

It's important that we are aware of the exclusion, because (if insurance is important to them) it can affect the way that we behave when sailing. ie. we can't just go ahead and do crazy things and think "the insurance will take care of it".

 

[Judders]

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ie. we can't just go ahead and do crazy things and think "the insurance will take care of it".


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Strictly speaking, the failure to "act as if a prudent uninsured" automatically invallidates any insurance policy.

I very much doubt that the chap in question would have behaived differently had he not been insured.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Re: Duty of care

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Yes, it got a bit more complicated than the original man on the Clapham omnibus concept.

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Gosh, SimonCR, that was qwik!

I didn't expect anyone else to be abroad ( in the Shakesperean sense ) at that hour - certainly not a fully-fledged legally-beagally bod, who ought to have been in bed, keeping his share-options warm....

Wassamarra? I hope you haven't my afflictions?

And I'd still appreciate a slightly deeper guidance on what the fairly thoroughly experienced and RYA-certificated club bod ought to be thinking about - and avoiding. There have several incidences recently of such bods - not earning their living at this - nevertheless being expected by a court and/or an insurance company to perform to a higher, professional standard.

What say you in guidance to the 'hoi-poloi' on 'ere?

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Guest]

Re: Duty of care

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There have several incidences recently of such bods - not earning their living at this - nevertheless being expected by a court and/or an insurance company to perform to a higher, professional standard.

What say you in guidance to the 'hoi-poloi' on 'ere?

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Share options - I wish! I'm a photographer...
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Difficult to give guidance - except, take reasonable care, and have a reason for what you do. It's no harder for more qualified peeps. More is expected of them because it's easier for them. So everyone's in more or less the same boat (metaphorically).

Of course, having evidence that you took care is always useful eg. a maintenance schedule, a logbook. On the other hand, if you miss off the schedule or logbook something that you had in fact done, then it might just make it look as though you hadn't done it. But more likely it will show that you were organised and taking care so be a positive thing.

If something does go wrong then, as soon as you can without actually interfering with dealing with the emergency, make a note of everything you can remember about what happened, include as much detail as possible both directly relevant and surrounding circumstances, and date it and sign it. It's amazing how memory can fade on details quickly, and if you start changing your mind or contradicting yourself later as the order of events becomes foggy in your mind then you'll lose credibility.

Those're my thoughts.

 

[Krusty]

Re: Duty of care

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If something does go wrong then, as soon as you can without actually interfering with dealing with the emergency, make a note of everything you can remember about what happened, include as much detail as possible both directly relevant and surrounding circumstances, and date it and sign it.

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That's the ship's log you are talking about!
I wonder you many amateur skippers keep a proper one nowadays? Or has that gone electronic too?

 

[duncan]

Re: Duty of care

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I wonder you many amateur skippers keep a proper one nowadays?

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rofl............." I was down below filling in the log as I do meticulously on the hour, every hour, when we hit this............." /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Guest]

Re: Duty of care

Could be. Having an up to date logbook would help to impress with having a well-run boat helping to give the impression that you were competent and a well run boat.

On the other hand, I'd tend to make a more detailed separate note. I could put all sorts of things in it that might not necessarily be the kind of thing I'd put in a logbook.